[peter12]

I would suggest that there were plenty of other philosophical factors beyond those you've identified, many of which were resisted consistently and in some cases violently by the Church, that were crucial in laying that groundwork... one wonders if we wouldn't be in better shape had Buddhism or Jainism caught on instead. But it's a wholly academic discussion.

Of course. Although, it would be foolish to say that Christianity didn't have the greatest impact out of all of those other factors, or that didn't create spin-off factors that, while not explicitly Christian, borrowed heavily from the tradition. It gets very academic, but I have said before, Augustine, interpreting Plato, was speaking to a Christian audience that spanned from France to what is now Turkey - a polyglot of peoples if there ever was one!

I know you weren't suggesting the same but the way you worded that drive-by could give someone the impression that you think something like, "all you need to bake yourself a good liberal secular democracy is Christian morals and time".

You know, I actually don't think that is such a preposterous thing to say. Basically the only decent liberal secular societies around on this old planet practiced orthodox Christianity, especially Catholicism.