[rubecube]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

Rubecube, you have totally lost the plot on this ethically speaking.

Certainly not. Though it manifests itself in more extreme ways in many Islam-majority countries.

No we aren't. Aren't you the first to stand against slut-shaming? Rightly so. This is a far more patriarchical incarnation, of course - not all "women should be modest" ideas or implementations thereof are equal. Some result in conservative people thinking less of a girl for wearing a miniskirt, others involve burning said girl alive.

I never made the argument that they were all equal. I think we're largely in agreement here.

Totally off the rails here. Islam is a set of ideas, not a race. It's also a religion practiced by 1.6 billion people from very different cultural and ethnic backgrounds. Even classifying this as a race issue is inherently racist. It implies you think that Islam = brown people.

Not really. I'm arguing that the "othering" that is happening here likely has racist undertones to it because it is generally directed at Muslims with darker skin, and that the colour of their skin and that religion isn't the only factor here.

The clothing that extreme mormon sects, mennonites, etc., mandate their women to wear are also forms of patriarchal oppression. The punishments may not be as severe and violent, but they can include things like expulsion from the sect for non-conformity, but these things are non-issues because they've been normalized and they look like 'us."

If you want to argue that the niqab is worse because it's symbolic of the severe violence women face in parts of the world, I'm not going to disagree, but I think we both would agree that symbolic-meaning is pretty subjective, and hardly something to base laws around.

First of all, if a woman wants to wear a veil freely, that is her choice and no one in Canada should be permitted to stop her from doing so - subject to such limits as are appropriate in a democratic society (e.g. can't wear it in your driver's license photo or passport photo for ID reasons; if she gets arrested, she can't wear it in her mugshot). However, disagreeing with her choice is not the same as telling her what she can't wear, any more than you saying "you're an ####### if you wear a confederate flag shirt" is telling some guy he can't wear a confederate flag shirt. Sure he can, you just disagree with his beliefs, or at least what the flag stands for. Again, rightly so.

This is pretty much exactly my position on the subject. I don't like niqabs. I think they're vile and oppressive, but I don't feel I have a right to tell someone they can't wear one.