[Agamemnon]

Originally Posted by calculoso

I agree with most of this. Terrorism is a problem itself, not just a symptom of another problem. Regardless of what the original problem was, the fact that they chose to resort to violence without even talking is another problem. As much as people bash Israel and the US for their actions, at least diplomacy was attempted.

Weellll... thats a bit of a stretch, in my opinion. Since the roots of ME terrorism go back farther than 5-10 years, it can't necessarily be said that 'terrorists chose to resort to violence without even talking to us'. I'm sure when initial greivances were sustained, they complained loudly. If no one listens to you... does that mean you never tried talking about it? I think to assume that they instantly grabbed up a gun/bomb after being slighted marginally by Israel/US is wishful thinking.

I disagree, terrorism is 'a problem', not 'the problem'. Terrorists don't fight because they like to fight, and they don't blow themselves up because they prefer death. They do it for political/social/cultural goals. The way they're going about it (especially suicide bombers) is wrong... but its not like we're taking the moral highground, we descend to response by violence instantly (if not before the violence is even sustained by us). We assasinate them from miles away, taking out innocent families at the same time. There are plenty of instances where 'we struck first', in their opinions (do their opinions matter at all? As much as ours? Less?).

I don't believe that the average Westerner believes that it's easier to kill them than to try to understand them. I believe that the average Westerner does not know much about the average person in the middle east, but also believes that if someone is willing to blow themselves up to attack "us" then we might as well kill them before they get to "us".

Sure... but the average Westerner probably can't discern who 'they' are, and HOZ/White Doors/Jolinar types seem to paint the entire region with the broadest of strokes, declaring the religion and the people themselves are inherently drawn towards terrorism more than anyone/where else on the earth. I think this ignores the 'reasons' for terror. Completely.

When Bin Laden hit the towers people in the US said 'its because he hates our freedom'. Thats flat out inaccurate. He even stated specific reasons on several occasions as to why he supports attacks against the US... we just never cared to listen (or dismissed the reasoning outright as unimportant... oddly enough).

Trying to understand "them" (the terrorists who are willing to blow themselves up) is incredibly hard and takes a boat load of time. What would you propose we do in the meantime? The current drastic attack measures sure aren't helping the understanding process, and I'd say that they are severely delaying it, but allowing "them" to grow, train and prosper unchecked is not an option either. There has to be a middle ground somewhere....

Well... if what we're doing now is the only, best way to treat the disease (not just the symptoms), then it looks like its incurable. These people are resisting local despots and international exploitation (I know, I know, Westerners are saints, how could I even suggest that we take advantage of other regions, I'm such a liberal...). When you take the jackboot to them you don't 'cure' them of their will to fight. You just put a gun into the hands of the kid who just saw his dad get wasted by US fighter planes. Its a bad, bad cycle, and the US/West is going to come out of Iraq/Afghanistan with a bloody nose for all its troubles. Waste of money, waste of resources, and a waste of an opportunity presented at 9/11 to gain worldwide momentum to examine the actual roots of the problems, rather than the symptoms.

What would I do instead? I'm not sure, I don't have the military/intelligence/economic appartus of the most powerful country at my disposal. They have people from Harvard and Yale formulating policies... I have a few years at the U of C.

What would Al Gore have done? Would he have invaded Afghanistan and Iraq? I'm not so sure...