[D as in David]

Originally Posted by D as in David

I'm not sure that some posters understand that the $240M is just the starting point for the CRL amount. As far as we can tell from the presentation, that amount is only to go towards constructing the event centre. In order for there to be any development by other developers, the city will first have to install infrastructure (roads, utilities, etc.) like they did in the East Village. What that amount is, I don't know but I would guess maybe $150M to $300M if you look at the East Village's costs. And that doesn't include rerouting Bow Trail, which I feel is a necessity for this project (for reasons myself and others have already posted earlier.

On top of that, more government funding will be required for the creosote remediation (which is unclear whether the city could use CRL funding for that).

Further to the question of costs needed to re-develop the West Village, I came across this old Herald article http://calgaryherald.com/news/local-...e-flames-arena which indicates the City already has done a ballpark estimate.

The city’s own 2010 West Village blueprint proposed office towers and housing for 12,000 people. Readying the area for development was initially estimated at $300 million to $400 million, mainly for rerouting roads and cleaning soil contaminated by a chemical plant.

Given that the event centre would take up a lot (looks to be at least a third) of the area to be re-developed, the costs should be reduced somewhat - hard to say how much, though.

“If they proposed West Village, they’d be nuts,” policy analyst Josh White wrote to his colleagues in January 2013. “We told them two years ago the challenge with this site … The business case only makes sense if you can fully build it out at very high density. An arena sucks up a huge (piece) of land, leaving a lot less to pay back a CRL (community revitalization levy).”

In another e-mail, White suggested West Village shouldn’t be opened up for at least a decade, lest it “cannibalize market demand” for East Village.

This is the part that speaks to me as to why I've had such a reaction of disappointment to a project I was eagerly anticipating. I'm completely behind a new arena and stadium and I thought the opportunity of putting it in the West Village could lead to a phenomenal "transformation" of this area. Ken King's own comments have led us to believe that it would be so. The WV area comes with a lot of unique opportunities and constraints that have already been outlined but it is also a significant parcel of land as it is situated at one of the major entrances into downtown and should, therefore, be developed as a Calgary showpiece.

To be honest, the argument that since we haven't fixed this area in 70 years, we have to do it now (with the implication that it will, otherwise, never get done), drives me a bit nuts. The city has a plan for this area that it can move forward with when and if it makes sense to the city and as long as the the creosote is currently contained or can be contained relatively inexpensively. As the city already communicated to the Flames, development of WV will challenge the economic viability of the EV if started too early. Therefore, it is the responsibility of the Flames to present something that is better than what the city has planned, including some preliminary financial analysis which takes into account how they will overcome an even higher density requirement than the city's own business case outlines. My point being, that if a developer is coming in and asking the city to significantly alter their own development plan, you should be prepared and come in with a better plan. God knows, they've had the time. This proposal is happening on the Flames timeline, not the city's. Therefore, it is the Flames' responsibility to have done their due diligence in putting forward a comprehensive vision for the whole area.

Maybe the due diligence has been done and they're just not ready to share it at this point in the process. I believe, and maybe unfairly, that is more due to the incompetence of Ken King in the matters of property development. It is hard for us to know at this point as he does not have a track record for us to evaluate at this point.

In contrast to the reputation he has of being a good salesman, he has been guilty of over-promising and under-delivering both on timeline and in vision.
Previously, he had communicated the repeated delays were due to making sure that this was presented until all the "i's were dotted and the t's were crossed" (although, I can't confirm this as I believe these come from second hand accounts of people attending STH events). What we saw from him this week was far from being detailed, a point he himself made. I've previously posted that I am less than impressed with the renderings but that I'll wait to see what the final renderings of the complex look like. What I don't like, is how they've seemingly ignored a lot of newer best practices in urban development. I'm hopeful that the CMLC will ultimately be the lead in this project and am confident in their capabilities.

Frankly, I find KK's used car salesman-like, "you'd be an idiot not to do this" or "you don't have a vision for this city if you disagree with this" approach very off-putting. People on this forum like to throw around the "thinks he's the smartest person in the room" expression a lot - it's one I've never been particularly fond of - but I can't help feeling this way about KK after listening to him this week. In today's world, salesmen like this make you want to take your business elsewhere. In this case, unfortunately, the Flames are the only business in town. In the end, you may end up having to do business with them but you're going to feel pretty disgusted afterwards. I don't want to end up feeling this way about the Flames organization.

Prior to this week's presentation, I've never really had much of an opinion of KK either way, but my fear is that his approach will have a very polarizing effect on what appears to be shaping up as a contentious and lengthy debate about a project many of us want to see become a resounding success.

I've never had any personal interactions with any of the Flames owners but, on the whole, I believe that they are civic minded and have an intention to make this city better. It's very possible I'm putting my frustration on the wrong individual but that's just the way I see it so far.

tl;dr - a lot of venting, about KK, in particular.