[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by GullFoss

Unless people are going to move to Calgary for the new stadium, the CRL is 100% a subsidy because...office space or condos being built on the west end would have simply be built elsewhere in the city instead. Elsewhere in the city, those taxes they pay would go into munciple funds.

I assure you, riverfront condos aren't going to be built in Springbank or Silverado or Saddle Ridge. If you take that development and transfer it to a different part of the city, you've instantly got lower property values – which means that Bob is paying lower taxes while using the same amount of civic services. The idea is to sell expensive inner-city property to people with more money than brains, and soak them for tax moneys without having to raise everyone else's mill rate.

Now, the complaint about CRL revenue not going into general funds is legitimate. I have said as much myself. There ought to be some percentage of holdback to cover normal services, such that the CRL does not result in a net drain on the city's treasury. Can anybody tell me whether, in fact, 100% of taxes on new development under a CRL go into the CRL's own fund? Or is there some allowance to pay for services actually used by the ratepayers, as common sense says there ought to be?

Originally Posted by curves2000

The cost to build the $200 million fieldhouse also takes into consideration the costs of absorbing a CFL sized stadium. If the city needed to build the fieldhouse strictly for the citizens than I doubt the costs would be $200 mil.

From what I understand, $200 million was the city's own figure for what it had planned. So yes, if the city built the fieldhouse strictly for the citizens, that was how much they were planning to spend.

I suspect we might be in this a little longer than people think. The costs with clean up, building a new massive project to improve Crowchild Trail / Bow Trail are going to be a billion or more.

The Crow/Bow thing needs to be done whether anything is ever built in the West Village or not. To include it as part of the cost of this project is flatly dishonest.

One could say the same thing about remediation. In principle, from all that I've heard, Domtar should be on the hook for those costs, but some gormless bellend at City Hall set things up so as to indemnify them. So Joe Taxpayer is on the hook for cleaning up the land – again, whether anything is built there or not, since the creosote is already seeping into other neighbourhoods.

The Flames are going to delay putting money into the Dome for renovation and improvements. There are extensions, seat removal, walls being blown out etc that could be done to improve the "fan experience" for the short term. As per the Flames contract with the city for use of the Dome, its at the Flames expense.

There's basically no return on that. The problem with the Dome is that it is pretty much a fixed structure and there is no room inside for major changes. You can't just gut the interior and rebuild inside the same shell, as they've done with Madison Square Garden. One big difference between the Saddledome and a modern arena design is that modern arenas are built with the capacity for future renovation in mind.

The Canucks organization has just finished completing a massive upgrade project on Rogers arena to make it more modern, roomier and a better experience. That arena is smack in the middle of train stations, condo buildings, massive CFL stadium etc. Not much room to work with but they did it. Winnipeg also finished some modernization programs too. MLSE is looking at a massive project to upgrade ACC in Toronto for the NBA All-Star game, NHL All-Star game and more.

Right. Rogers Arena, MTS Centre, and ACC are all modern designs. The Saddledome isn't, and there's no way to retrofit it to that extent. You would have to tear it down and start over.

Long term we do need a brand new rink but the notion that an older barn can't be upgraded is horeshi** One of the biggest scams or misinformation being told out there is the fact that Calgary will have the oldest rink in North America very soon. This is not TRUE!! The NHL always says this but forgets to mention in NY M.S.G opened in 1968. They have had to invest hundreds of millions to upgrade and modernize but that's because it makes sense and it needs to be done. I believe in 10 years MSG has to be out of its existing location for improvements to the train station underneath and they just spent a billion on renos.

Again, MSG is designed with a structure that allows the interior to be completely gutted and replaced. (This may have been partly luck. The fact that it's built on top of a major rail terminal means they had to do a lot of things differently than was usual in the 1960s.) The Saddledome wasn't.