[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Originally Posted by Fire of the Phoenix

It wasn't an ad hominem attack, it was at the very heart of the subject being discussed.

Of course it was. Rather than engaging me on the substance of this discussion, you took another example of my conduct, pointed to it, and said, "in light of this prior statement on an analogous subject, your view on the subject presently under discussion are called into question". That is the definition of an ad hominem attack - you've attempted to cast aspersions on my views by attacking me personally.

Your criticism was right as to my previous post, but that has absolutely no bearing on the substance of what I've posted in this thread, which is either right or wrong on its own merits.

However, I believe some people don't care about that as much as they do shaming people and reveling in the feeling of being superior. Shaming does have it's place (neo Nazis for instance should be shamed) but I think some people are more interested in shaming because it makes them feel self righteous more than they are doing it to enact actual social change.

I agree; we were discussing this in the context of social justice warriors on the internet. I don't think anyone should be shamed in the extreme - I don't think making a sexist joke in the office should lose you your job or cause you to be effectively tarred and feathered via twitter and labelled as a mysoginist. But I do think people should effectively communicate to you that that's something you should be embarrassed about and hopefully you will recognize that and not do it anymore.

Even if you choose not to believe it, there is a grey area in this debate. That's where a great majority of people reside that offend you so. They are the people, as time goes by and society continues to evolve, who will shift their and their children's views over the course of their lives. Many of them will end up helping the cause of inclusion if given enough time, even if don't believe it now. Lots of them are regular people that you see every day like family members, neighbors, teachers, lawyers, poor people, rich people, people from all walks of life.

I hope they do end up doing so, but that doesn't mean they currently reside in a grey area. They reside in the black, and the hope is that a light bulb goes off and they choose to stop being there.

They aren't all scumbags who need a 'proportionate amount of shaming' just because their attitudes and beliefs haven't quite caught up with society's progress as a whole.

As I say, a proportionate amount of shaming - not witch hunting people - is a good response, because it's an effective way to nudge society's progress along. Make it clear, publicly and directly but without hyperbole - that these views are not acceptable.

Hell, I was against gay marriage at the time as well, now I am 100% for it. Was I shamed into changing my ways? No. I realized the world was changing and I needed to change with it.

Well, I mean, good for you, but I hope you don't mean to imply that the world changed and therefore practices that were previously wrong are now acceptable. It was you who was wrong.

My point was I don't think anonymous internet message boards are the place that will facilitate that change.

Never said they were. I think it has to happen everywhere, INCLUDING internet message boards. Unfortunately, outside of anonymous settings, people often hesitate to call people out on their ignorance face to face out of politeness and fear of confrontation. So, maybe it just starts on the internet, and eventually translates into everyday interaction.