[Buzzard]

Wow, this thread really evolved from the first post. Very interesting comments. I agree with both sides to a certain extent, but when it comes down to it, how can anyone ever know what a particular person can or cant deal with? Rock bottom to you could be peanuts for me, vice versa. As someone mentioned, there is no black and white. Some people have limited life experiences and when things get nasty, they are unable to cope, and see no possible way out, even while knowing help is out there. Similar to how a 4 year old loses it when a favorite toy goes missing or breaks. They dont have the experience yet to understand that life goes on in spite of it. Now, having said that, not every 4 year old blows a gasket either, right? Every mind is unique.

I'll give you an example of how people deal with things. My Grandfather, who had 9 children, lost his first son, I beleive he was about 10 years old, to polio. At the same time, my aunt was also stricken with it, but survived. Tough.... yeah, you bet. It gets worse. My Grandmother developed severe arthritis in her 20's, and suffered with it terribly, until she died of cancer. I believe she was in her late 40's. Tough.... uh huh, it gets worse. My Grandfather was left to raise 8 kids by himself, but was basically adjusted to that already I suppose, as his wife had limited abilities while she was alive. He successfully raised his remaining children to adulthood, all the while working his small farm, and doing carpentry work at the same time. I guess things went relatively smooth for a few years until one of his sons decided life wasnt worth living anymore. Rumor has it (I've never really delved for details) there were marital problems. Whatever the issues, he gassed himself in the garage of his home. His young daughters found him. This was rough on everyone, but I cant imagine the pain within in my Grandfather. Life went on. He remarried, and within 5 years tragedy struck again. Another uncle of mine thought life could never be good enough for him again either, and he blew his brains out, all over the inside of his house. Not that it matters, but rumor has it there was woman problems. He lived through it, and was a picture perfect old Grandpa for me and all my family. Death wasnt over for him though. Eventually, his second wife died of natural causes. By this time he was well into his 80''s. He moved on from this as well, living life as best as an elderly man could. What a tough old man. Having had hip replacements in both legs, his independence was deminishing. My Mother, and one particular aunt, became his caregivers. Tragedy wasnt done with him yet though. My Mother was diagnosed with terminal cancer. She had a year to live, and it was decided it would be best (obviously), to prolong telling him, in the possiblity that he may go before her. Well, that wasn't to be. My Mom deteriorated rapidly, and there was no choice but to let him know. I'll never forget the pain in his face at her funeral. Looking at him, and knowing what he'd been through, I could forget my own sorrow. This was about the end for him though. Nine months after my Mom went, he packed it in. One month short of his 94th birthday.

What made him go on? Why didn't he give up after the second or third tragedy? He always seemed a very happy, jovial man. You would never here a complaint out of him. Why did his sons not have the ability to forge on like he did? Was there a screwy gene there somewhere? He lived a rough, tough life growing up, a classic pioneer.....long before the later events unfolded. Did this help him deal with losing 4 children, 2 wives and who knows what else along the way?

No two minds are alike, and everyone deals with **** differently. I have no clue what went through my uncles minds. Did the second one not think of the first before he pulled the trigger? Did he care if he did? There are other suicides in my life, details being irrelevant. But the same questions always come up. Why could they not deal with what was going on? Its pretty deep stuff. I tend to think there's a lot more than a shrink could ever tell you about it. I believe they can help...yes...but everyone, absolutely not. I also believe that some people lose all thought process period. It just happens, they off themselves without any thinking of any consequences to anyone else. It's not that they are being selfish, they just react...and boom, they're gone. The skull holds some pretty fascinating, deep, dark secrets. We'll never know all of what makes people tick. Makes for great conversation though. A cool thread.