[Agamemnon]

Originally Posted by Azure

You're probably right. I'm just pointing out that HAD the US and the rest of the allies actually attacked Japan by military force instead of with an A-Bomb, more innocent civilians would have died.

Sure. And my point is they didn't have to attack Japan (time was certainly on the Allies side at this point). They could have (and were) burned the entire island with another month of bombing.

The US "helped" reconstruct their economic and political system, but by no means did they do it without Japanese help. "You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink" a phrase that the US should severly examine with the situation in Iraq. Japan played a major role in their shift to a democratic nation, and now, they have the second biggest economy in the world.

Japan did not develop its political/economic institutions intially. The US did not 'help', they 'forced' these institutions in Japan. They also pardoned thousands and thousands of Japanese war criminals so that they could re-enter Japanese industry and get things going there again. MacArthur ruled that place like a God. He wasn't there 'helping out and tidying up'. He was re-making the nation, western-style.

For what its worth, I like debating about history and such, so I hope you don't mind me taking your comments towards other people and responding to them.

No, I don't mind, except that you were in agreement with me about why the US comes up in conversation (apparently), so I wasn't sure what we were talking about here.

I said the defeat was inevitable, not instant. The US was like a breath of fresh air for the allies, and everyone knew Germany couldn't hold out much longer. Not to say that the US came and won the war, because there is still a good chance that the allies, without the US could have done the same, but you had a Germany that was falling apart, Hitler making bad military decisions, and suddenly you add another superpower to the equation.

And like I said earlier, while hindsight may prove that the allies were probably going to win, at the time it was a total toss-up, up to and even after D-Day, from the point of view at the time. The allies did not 'know' that Hitler's defeat was inevitable when the US entered the war. Not even close.

Well the Japanese certainly weren't short of people willing to die by suicide for their country. Who knows how the rest of the country would have acted?

I heard they were training very young boys and women to fight at that point. Sounds like they were running short of people trained to die, if not willing. I'm sure the US Marine Corps. would have made short work of armed Japanese civilians, despite their willingness to die for their cause... especially with a path of fire leading the way.