[Azure]

Well... I'm certainly not advocating the fire-bombing campaign, but from what I've read/heard, Japan was basically destroyed by fire before the a-bomb's were dropped. In "Fog of War" they go over the statistics of lives lost in major Japanese cities due to firebombing - beyond staggering. #'s like over 50% were common for city death-rates (according to Robert MacNamarra).

You're probably right. I'm just pointing out that HAD the US and the rest of the allies actually attacked Japan by military force instead of with an A-Bomb, more innocent civilians would have died.

I actually think there are millions of Japanese who are still 'miffed' about it. But they're the LOSERS, so they don't have a right to complain. They're not friends with the US by choice, they're friends with the US because the US constructed their current political/economic systems... and they're working great, no need to complain. That said, Japanese xenophobia is still fairly rampant, and it doesn't exclude Americans.

The US "helped" reconstruct their economic and political system, but by no means did they do it without Japanese help. "You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink" a phrase that the US should severly examine with the situation in Iraq. Japan played a major role in their shift to a democratic nation, and now, they have the second biggest economy in the world.

Well, as much as I (apparently) can't say that the a-bomb wasn't necessary, you can't say that 'the US or the Soviet Union would have dropped it on the opposing country'. Neither happened, so we can't know. All I know is the sorry state of affairs Japan was in pre-bomb.

Can't argue with that.

Yeah, but for whatever reason you kept responding to it. I think I was commenting on someone else' post and you jumped in.

For what its worth, I like debating about history and such, so I hope you don't mind me taking your comments towards other people and responding to them.

This is all inconsequential. Germany was NOT defeated upon the entry of the US into the war. While we now believe, in hindsight, that the allies always had the upper-hand (long-term), at the time it was a toss up. People didn't 'know' in 1942 that Hitler was going to be defeated, not by a longshot. Hell, I dont' think the world 'knew' it was over even after Normandy, it was a pitched battle in Europe.

I said the defeat was inevitable, not instant. The US was like a breath of fresh air for the allies, and everyone knew Germany couldn't hold out much longer. Not to say that the US came and won the war, because there is still a good chance that the allies, without the US could have done the same, but you had a Germany that was falling apart, Hitler making bad military decisions, and suddenly you add another superpower to the equation.

Result? Defeat of Hitler and the Third Reich.

My point was that, at the time of the bomb, Japan was finished. I don't really believe the arguments that 'they could have kept fighting for months'. They could... but only with their fists and feet... everything else was on fire.

Well the Japanese certainly weren't short of people willing to die by suicide for their country. Who knows how the rest of the country would have acted?