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MatsNaslund · 06-27-2006, 11:24 PM

Hi guys, I'd like to offer my 2 cents and just address a few things which either have been incorrectly stated or left as unknowns.

1. Wiki is not exactly something to hold up as the word of god. It can be edited by anyone for any purpose.

2. Pakistan is a state which is officially Islamic. Sharia law is enshrined into its constitution. Meaning if you are even accused of anything islamic its like an automatic sentence. 97% of the population is Islamic. The minorities that do exist are mainly christians & the ahmadiya sect of Islam and they are regularly discriminated against.

3. Honour killings in this day and age are a not something out of the ordinary in Pakistan. In Pakistan there is a tradition to marry amongst first cousins and most of these marriages are arranged so if the girl marries someone else it kind of screws things up. The family loses face amongst the community if they don't do something about it. That's why they do these killings. In Pakistan, honour killings never ever land anyone in jail even if the families are convicted. Usually they get off by paying a fine. This story about 9 getting convicted is nothing. There was a story a few years ago that a boy maybe 13-14 was seen walking with a married woman of a rich background. It was alleged that they had an affair but nothing was ever proven. As punishment a court gave out an order that the kid's sister be gang raped in the streets by members of the rich woman's family. The shocking part was that they actually carried out the order.

4. Sikhism is the world's 5th largest religion. http://www.sikhs.org/religion.htm

Honour killings amongst Sikhs (a separate religion altogether from both Hinduism and Islam), Christians, Hindus and others have actually gone down and the religions themselves are against such killings. Whatever happens like the case in BC is an isolated case and not an everyday problem and yes the guy was a Sikh. This is an isolated case. There are many Sikhs (especially in BC) of both genders who have married into whites and others. It comes down to personal choice and at least those Sikhs whose families have been here a few generations have accepted that.

5. Talking about Dowry and Caste system is like comparing apples and oranges when talking about the honour system. They are topics onto themselves. Caste and Dowry are ancient Hindu traditions that have died down in modern times as compared to how much of a big deal they used to be in the past and it is mostly a problem amongst Hindus, but Sikhs and Muslims from the Indian subcontinent do follow caste and dowry to a degree (when it comes to arranging marriages). Again they are smaller issues then honour killings.

6. Muslims are not all brown-skinned. There are white Muslims too. The Shoe-bomber Richard Reid is one example. There are chinese muslims, Black Muslims (Nation of Islam & recruits from US jails), South Asian Muslims, Turkish, Arab and Persian Muslims and white Muslims. Muslim is a religion and not confined to any 1 race. On the flip side not all Arabs are Muslim. Many Arabs (especially from Lebanon and Iraq) are in fact Christians. Looking at them you can't tell which is Muslim and which isn't.

7. Despite Muslims having more population in Canada then Sikhs they only have 1 MP to show for it and he only recently got elected. Sikhs are well represented in the political system in Canada. Former BC Premier and Former Federal Health Minister Ujjal Dosanjh, Former Federal Fisheries, Revenue, Natural Resources Minister Herb Dhaliwal, Former Alberta ND leader Raj Pannu as well as 8 MP's in Paul Martin's government and I believe 6 MPs now that are Sikhs. BC's Attorney General is Wally Oppal (a former BC Supreme Court Judge). He is a well known Sikh. Emmanual Sandhu is 1/2 Sikh (Sandhu is a common Sikh surname). Monica Deol (who used to be on MuchMusic years ago) is a Sikh too as are several people who work at CTV and CBC as announcers. One of the richest Sikhs in Canada is Asa Johal, who has won the Order of British Columbia award in the past.:

http://www.protocol.gov.bc.ca/protoc...991_AJohal.htm

8. Sikhs have been in Canada over 100 years. The oldest Sikh temple in Canada is located in Vancouver on Ross Street and was established in 1908. Muslims in large part have only just begun immigrating in large numbers to Canada.

9. One can be Muslim and Indian at the same time. Indian is nationality. Muslim is religion. Most Indians are hindu but over 120 million indians are Muslim too. 2% of Indians are SIkh and 2.5% of Indians are Christians. India's PM at the moment is a Sikh, its President is a Muslim and an Italian Christian is the leader of its largest political party which is in power.

10. That gas station owner killed was actually a Sikh and not a Muslim. Many Sikhs got killed in the post-911 aftermath because Americans didn't know the the difference between the 2. There is only 1 group of Muslims that wears turbans and very few of them exist in the US of A and they are Afghans. Sikhs exist all over the US in small numbers except in NY and California where they have sizeable populations. Sikhs on the otherhand are required to wear a turban if they are practicing. The Afghan and Sikh turban types are different as well. But how are you supposed to tell that to an ignorant American full of rage who would rather kill a Sikh for 9-11 then a Saudi Arabian. All of 2 or 3 of the bombers were Saudi Arabian (just like Bin Laden). As I have mentioned before Sikhism and Islam are 2 separate religions with very little in common. Radical Islam has even less in common with Sikhism. As for the teachings of the 2 religions here are the similarities & differences:

http://www.sikhs.org/relig_m.htm

06-27-2006, 11:24 PM	#20
MatsNaslund Lifetime Suspension Join Date: Apr 2006 Exp:	Hi guys, I'd like to offer my 2 cents and just address a few things which either have been incorrectly stated or left as unknowns. 1. Wiki is not exactly something to hold up as the word of god. It can be edited by anyone for any purpose. 2. Pakistan is a state which is officially Islamic. Sharia law is enshrined into its constitution. Meaning if you are even accused of anything islamic its like an automatic sentence. 97% of the population is Islamic. The minorities that do exist are mainly christians & the ahmadiya sect of Islam and they are regularly discriminated against. 3. Honour killings in this day and age are a not something out of the ordinary in Pakistan. In Pakistan there is a tradition to marry amongst first cousins and most of these marriages are arranged so if the girl marries someone else it kind of screws things up. The family loses face amongst the community if they don't do something about it. That's why they do these killings. In Pakistan, honour killings never ever land anyone in jail even if the families are convicted. Usually they get off by paying a fine. This story about 9 getting convicted is nothing. There was a story a few years ago that a boy maybe 13-14 was seen walking with a married woman of a rich background. It was alleged that they had an affair but nothing was ever proven. As punishment a court gave out an order that the kid's sister be gang raped in the streets by members of the rich woman's family. The shocking part was that they actually carried out the order. 4. Sikhism is the world's 5th largest religion. http://www.sikhs.org/religion.htm Honour killings amongst Sikhs (a separate religion altogether from both Hinduism and Islam), Christians, Hindus and others have actually gone down and the religions themselves are against such killings. Whatever happens like the case in BC is an isolated case and not an everyday problem and yes the guy was a Sikh. This is an isolated case. There are many Sikhs (especially in BC) of both genders who have married into whites and others. It comes down to personal choice and at least those Sikhs whose families have been here a few generations have accepted that. 5. Talking about Dowry and Caste system is like comparing apples and oranges when talking about the honour system. They are topics onto themselves. Caste and Dowry are ancient Hindu traditions that have died down in modern times as compared to how much of a big deal they used to be in the past and it is mostly a problem amongst Hindus, but Sikhs and Muslims from the Indian subcontinent do follow caste and dowry to a degree (when it comes to arranging marriages). Again they are smaller issues then honour killings. 6. Muslims are not all brown-skinned. There are white Muslims too. The Shoe-bomber Richard Reid is one example. There are chinese muslims, Black Muslims (Nation of Islam & recruits from US jails), South Asian Muslims, Turkish, Arab and Persian Muslims and white Muslims. Muslim is a religion and not confined to any 1 race. On the flip side not all Arabs are Muslim. Many Arabs (especially from Lebanon and Iraq) are in fact Christians. Looking at them you can't tell which is Muslim and which isn't. 7. Despite Muslims having more population in Canada then Sikhs they only have 1 MP to show for it and he only recently got elected. Sikhs are well represented in the political system in Canada. Former BC Premier and Former Federal Health Minister Ujjal Dosanjh, Former Federal Fisheries, Revenue, Natural Resources Minister Herb Dhaliwal, Former Alberta ND leader Raj Pannu as well as 8 MP's in Paul Martin's government and I believe 6 MPs now that are Sikhs. BC's Attorney General is Wally Oppal (a former BC Supreme Court Judge). He is a well known Sikh. Emmanual Sandhu is 1/2 Sikh (Sandhu is a common Sikh surname). Monica Deol (who used to be on MuchMusic years ago) is a Sikh too as are several people who work at CTV and CBC as announcers. One of the richest Sikhs in Canada is Asa Johal, who has won the Order of British Columbia award in the past.: http://www.protocol.gov.bc.ca/protoc...991_AJohal.htm 8. Sikhs have been in Canada over 100 years. The oldest Sikh temple in Canada is located in Vancouver on Ross Street and was established in 1908. Muslims in large part have only just begun immigrating in large numbers to Canada. 9. One can be Muslim and Indian at the same time. Indian is nationality. Muslim is religion. Most Indians are hindu but over 120 million indians are Muslim too. 2% of Indians are SIkh and 2.5% of Indians are Christians. India's PM at the moment is a Sikh, its President is a Muslim and an Italian Christian is the leader of its largest political party which is in power. 10. That gas station owner killed was actually a Sikh and not a Muslim. Many Sikhs got killed in the post-911 aftermath because Americans didn't know the the difference between the 2. There is only 1 group of Muslims that wears turbans and very few of them exist in the US of A and they are Afghans. Sikhs exist all over the US in small numbers except in NY and California where they have sizeable populations. Sikhs on the otherhand are required to wear a turban if they are practicing. The Afghan and Sikh turban types are different as well. But how are you supposed to tell that to an ignorant American full of rage who would rather kill a Sikh for 9-11 then a Saudi Arabian. All of 2 or 3 of the bombers were Saudi Arabian (just like Bin Laden). As I have mentioned before Sikhism and Islam are 2 separate religions with very little in common. Radical Islam has even less in common with Sikhism. As for the teachings of the 2 religions here are the similarities & differences: http://www.sikhs.org/relig_m.htm Last edited by MatsNaslund; 06-27-2006 at 11:28 PM.