[Chill Cosby]

Originally Posted by Thor

I agree with most of what you said, but this one I have to disagree with. I start from a zero sum position, that in order for me to accept something I have to have convincing evidence for it. I hate to roll out this example but its apt here, its not a belief system to deny the existence of Unicorns. Atheism is simply a statement of non belief, nothing more. I assume you are referring to the movement of Atheists, the outspoken movement more than you refer to the meaning of what it is.

It's still a belief system. It is absolutely a belief system to deny the existence of Unicorns.

Atheism is a belief system, it is a set of things that a community believes to be true. It doesn't matter if that truth is concerning the positive or negative existence of something, simply that you believe it to be true.

Originally Posted by Thor

Its especially noticeable when you meet others in the movement are involved in it like I am, there is no one dogma, there is lots of differing political opinions, and lots of nonsense within this large umbrella of skeptics, atheists, agnostics, humanists, etc.. This is why I dislike suggesting we are like a belief system because it has no basis in what the reality of this movement is.

How is this any different from any religion aside from the existence of a Dogma? And how is the dogma strictly negative? In Christianity there are lots of differing political opinions and lots of nonsense. So how is that different? You all collectively believe in particular truths, but there is a lot of disagreement and varying of opinions, which is entirely true of Christianity. None of what you said disproves Atheism as a belief system, if anything, it confirms it.

Originally Posted by Thor

I simply don't see the evidence nor see the need in my understanding of the universe from a naturalistic and scientific viewpoint for a supreme being, God, outside intelligent force. To say that puts me into a belief system is either an attempt to change the meaning of the word faith or as is often the case done by Christians to play the "well yeah you atheists are just as bad as Christians, you are like any other faith." Which is wrong.

First, if you can PLEASE stop the "Well this is just another thing typically done by _____ in order to _____" junk? You're talking to me man, not Christians, not apologists, not whatever, it's just me, so don't condescend.

A belief system is not dependent on faith to qualify it's existence. Perhaps that is where you're getting hung up. Atheism is a belief system as any other, there is a common truth (deities don't exist) that every Atheist adheres to, or they aren't Atheists.

And hey, as someone who doesn't identify with Atheists or with any organised religion, yeah, you guys are just as bad.

Originally Posted by Thor

Well to be fair, the modern atheist, humanist, skeptic movements are born as a reaction to the Religious right, to politicians who make legislation based on their beliefs, the anti gay rights movement, the anti abortion movement, the teach creationism in schools movement, the subjugation of women movement, the Catholic church being itself movement, etc..

To be fair, the modern Christian or Catholic would never support the anti-gay rights movement, the anti-abortion movement, the teaching of creationism in public schools, the subjugation of women, or legislation based on the Catholic Church.

If you want to point out the worst of one and only talk about that, isn't it just as fair to talk about Atheists like they're a bunch of know-nothing teenagers in highschool that just discovered the Ramones and Bad Religion?

Originally Posted by Thor

Well its the argument against organized religion, pointing out how we have a vast graveyard of Gods, which most Christians laugh at and dismiss, while holding on to beliefs that share the history and evolution and extinction of these old relgious systems. Because a common and very serious question we get is "how can you not believe in a God??" and the easiest response is the same reason you don't believe in Zeus, Odin...

But that's where the disconnect is, because it's NOT the same reason as why they don't believe in Odin. They don't believe in Odin because in their religion, he isn't a factor, there is God. You don't believe in Odin because you don't believe in deities. There is nothing that replaces the story of Odin, there is nothing.

It is not close to the same reasoning. It's the opposite, and that's why it's a silly argument to make. You reject Odin because: Nothing, they reject Odin because: God.

Originally Posted by Thor

This is a problem on both sides, people in many parts of the world have no clue what atheism is, nor do they have any clue as to why or how anyone could take that stance. The misunderstanding will exist on both sides, I will say however that I find often the non religious know a lot more about organized religion, since so many left their faiths and have had to defend their position to family, friends.

I disagree entirely. Most Atheists are no more or less intelligent or versed in organised religion than members of organised religion. You keep generalising Atheists in a positive light, and members of religion in a negative light. I know more intelligent, thoughtful, and worldly people of religion than I do Atheists, but I'm not going to make a claim that "most people of religion" know this or that, because there's still bad on both sides. I know a good amount of both sides that make me outright cringe at the lack of scope.

Originally Posted by Thor

Most people have never been exposed to our side, that are entrenched in their religion, and I don't think we should push them into our beliefs. I will always be respectful of the person, unless of course that person believes in heinous things.

Agree, mostly, my activism is a response, and in my opinion is a sorely needed one to counteract the problems globally we are facing.

Sounds an awful lot like the basis of Christian Missionary work doesn't it? "My belief is important, I need to spread the word of Atheism to those who do not know. I need to save them."

I'm sorry. Your opinion isn't a sorely needed one, just like the opinion of the far-right extreme Christian isn't a needed one. The best course of action is simply to reject the extremities of whichever pops up first, instead of having the two opinions sit at opposite sides and bitch across the water at each other.

Honestly, with minor changes I could take every line of every one of your sentences and make it sound like it came from a devout Christian. Deny whatever labels you want, but the common Atheist is no better than the common Christian, and the modern Christian is no worse than the modern Atheist.