[Thor]

Originally Posted by Chill Cosby

My point is that atheism is a belief system, one which (if not understood) can be as laughably ridiculous as any religion.

I agree with most of what you said, but this one I have to disagree with. I start from a zero sum position, that in order for me to accept something I have to have convincing evidence for it. I hate to roll out this example but its apt here, its not a belief system to deny the existence of Unicorns. Atheism is simply a statement of non belief, nothing more. I assume you are referring to the movement of Atheists, the outspoken movement more than you refer to the meaning of what it is.

Its especially noticeable when you meet others in the movement are involved in it like I am, there is no one dogma, there is lots of differing political opinions, and lots of nonsense within this large umbrella of skeptics, atheists, agnostics, humanists, etc.. This is why I dislike suggesting we are like a belief system because it has no basis in what the reality of this movement is.

I simply don't see the evidence nor see the need in my understanding of the universe from a naturalistic and scientific viewpoint for a supreme being, God, outside intelligent force. To say that puts me into a belief system is either an attempt to change the meaning of the word faith or as is often the case done by Christians to play the "well yeah you atheists are just as bad as Christians, you are like any other faith." Which is wrong.

I also understand why people do, so I'm not ignorant enough to say "God doesn't exist" because A. It's as ridiculous as saying "God exists" (both statements completely unknowable), and B. I try not to be a terrible person. Your beliefs are your own, and belong within you. It is just as exhausting to hear someone preach about god as it is to hear someone preach about his lack of existence.

I also don't take absolutist stances on this, with enough evidence atheists would change their viewpoint based on that. I only have issues with religion when it intrudes into politics and matters that affect people that are not religious.

You may find it exhausting, I quite enjoy the discussions, and its similar to how I feel about politics, there are times you just don't want to see another liberals vs conservatives discussion because its so repetitive. BUT, the power of debate and discussion is very much a powerful force in changing minds, and that's why I put the effort in to have worthwhile discussions with people who see this universe in a fundamentally different light.

The problem with religion is when people feel the need to force their belief onto others. The same is true of atheism.

Well to be fair, the modern atheist, humanist, skeptic movements are born as a reaction to the Religious right, to politicians who make legislation based on their beliefs, the anti gay rights movement, the anti abortion movement, the teach creationism in schools movement, the subjugation of women movement, the Catholic church being itself movement, etc..

The movement really started in force after 9/11 and the Bush years where the Christian right really started to push hard back against secularism and where skeptics are concerned 9/11 was a rallying cry with the insane amount of conspiracy theories that came out because of it and just how common the anti science movement online has become.

This is why I'm in my secular humanist organization, I see this as an answer to a better society where religion and personal beliefs are respected, while we seek to build governance for all people in a secular system, as the founding fathers were very smart to figure out long ago.

I don't define what we don't understand as God, but as I said, I was illustrating why I take issue with bringing up things like Odin or other "Gods", because they are all based on the same central concept of God, which is used to give knowing to the unknown. To reason with a religious person in that particular sense is pointless, so I'm not sure where the strength of that argument comes from.

Well its the argument against organized religion, pointing out how we have a vast graveyard of Gods, which most Christians laugh at and dismiss, while holding on to beliefs that share the history and evolution and extinction of these old relgious systems. Because a common and very serious question we get is "how can you not believe in a God??" and the easiest response is the same reason you don't believe in Zeus, Odin...

As pointed out by March, it was in reference to Duffman's post which showed a pretty real lack of basic religious understanding. If you don't know about what it is you don't believe, how can you really believe anything at all?

This is a problem on both sides, people in many parts of the world have no clue what atheism is, nor do they have any clue as to why or how anyone could take that stance. The misunderstanding will exist on both sides, I will say however that I find often the non religious know a lot more about organized religion, since so many left their faiths and have had to defend their position to family, friends.

Here's my thing, whether you're religious or atheist, I firmly believe that you should be sure of your own beliefs, know what it is you don't believe and why you don't believe it, while following the general rule of respecting others.

Most people have never been exposed to our side, that are entrenched in their religion, and I don't think we should push them into our beliefs. I will always be respectful of the person, unless of course that person believes in heinous things.

What is relevant to me is that religion is as harmful on a global scale as it is helpful on an individual scale. The amount of bad that comes from it will never outweigh the good. A lot of that comes from the need to be "right", the need to turn an unknown into "fact", for their to be "one truth". If you're going godless, at least have a mind not to be part of the problem.

Agree, mostly, my activism is a response, and in my opinion is a sorely needed one to counteract the problems globally we are facing.