Quote:
Originally Posted by Chill Cosby
I'm not sure why you'd suggest that I'm ignoring the views of those women who think it should stay but needs change. As I've said (repeatedly), it's harmful in it's current existence and therefore needs change. Where you might be confused is that I've been asking lately what the benefit of having it at all is. I still haven't gotten an answer.
I just think it's a little disingenuous to say I've ignored the value of "keep it but ..." when I'm the one who suggested option 4 (keep it but make it more inclusive, which would include more moderation) and voted for that option. Am I ignoring my own vote?
Again, I'm just looking for some response regarding what value it has that makes it worth keeping despite obviously causing issues. No matter how you cut it, 23% of people think it's bad enough that it shouldn't exist at all, so I'm just wondering what value the thread actually has that makes it worth fighting for.
The 2.5million views thing is a bit of a red herring. It's less average views per year than the Funny/Cool thread, and still has a low post count for the length of time it's been around. Using that number serves only to inflate the value of the thread. I've clicked multiple times into threads I don't care much about to see if the thread is going somewhere interesting, does that mean I care about every thread I go into? Absolutely not. I think you have to look at the post count to see who that thread has value to... and it's mostly WhiteTiger (20% of all posts where most big threads see a "post leader" at about 10% tops).
I do agree though, this thread has already improved the other thread. I've never taken a hard line against the existence of the thread, but I HAVE been relentless in a quest for a simple explanation of why it's worth keeping even in the face of controversy and the knowledge that other's find it harmful. I would think one person would've been able to answer that, but I haven't seen it yet. Even if we take your 2.5million views as gospel concerning the value of the thread. Can one of 2.5 million people not simply state what is so important about that thread that it's worth the higher moderation, continued sexism, and the fact that people find it upsetting?
If it's worth all that, surely there is one simple reason.
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Fair enough, I mainly was trying to point out that there was a shift in the discussion from how do you fix it to why have it at all.
As for value vs cost, higher moderation is worth it as it is a popular thread, I think most posters agreed that the thread wasn't inherently sexist it was the commentary and pictures of just parts that were the issue. If you clean up that aspect you eliminate that problem. I disagree with the assertion that ylyl increases general sexism on the site. And a minority of women find a fixed version of the thread offensive. So with that the cost of keeping it is low mainly increased moderation.
The cost of getting rid of it is that you increase the amount of things you are not allowed to talk about. Getting rid of the thread is essentially saying commentary or pictures about how attractive people are is not permitted. Threads like the Henrik Lundquist commercial, Hot Olympians, and ESPN body issue become either not permitted or immediately derailed. Hilarious avatars like peanuts disappear. Now Hot Olympians needs to be fixed to be one thread of both genders but that is pretty easy. By getting rid of it you are also are essentially calling everyone who views the thread a sexist pig. The open nature of this site is one of its stongest points.
I rarely go into that thread, I have never posted in it but I think there is a place for it amoung all the threads here. Others have argued that having this type of safe content (clothing on) means they don't have to go find it amoung the rest of the internet.
The one thing I have learned in this thread is to be more careful with the type of language I use when posting in general and that general levels of sexism are a concern.