Quote:
Originally Posted by Hanna Sniper
Maybe it's just my own failure but rarely in a discussion do you break down every line of someones response and reply solely on that line. Taking a post out of context and detailing it line by line can change the message someone was trying to convey. It's understandable that someone would take that with a defensive response as it comes of a ticks on a chalkboard trying keep score. Obviously I read in a manner you didn't intend... but of course you did it again, hopefully not again so I know you are sincere.
The whole affirmative action point you keep bringing up makes no sense. I don't understand why that point being addressed to me for a third time. And here;s why
If I was an employer in the position to hand out 100 jobs to employees. I could guarantee I wouldn't be hitting the bare minimum in regards of minorities. Having this mindset and action is what should be enforced rather then affirmative action. Here's why, affirmative action helps placing individuals in positions that they should have had the opportunity in the first place (which is good). But forcing someone to only reach the bare minimum doesn't mean you are bettering the situation it only means you are covering it with a nice fresh coat of paint. Where this fails is that it discriminates in the attempt equalize... you don't solve the real issue you just allow it to exist under guidelines. You can't eliminate discrimination but teaching how to discriminate by quota
The bad guy stance comes from be felt that I have been put in a defensive position promoting equality. rubecube's post and the dissecting of my post from you indeed made me feel my back was to the wall and understandable the "bad guy" It just reinforces the idea that i've had to take a defensive position.
I get from the responses that what I am saying is correct but that isn't how the real world works. And my answer to that is you can't change the real world but you can change yourself. Allow your actions speak for yourself and if you believe you can stop discrimination then do so without discriminating, Meeting the bare minimum of affirmative action is not something to aspire to be or be proud about
Here's the thing, our goal is very much the same with the only difference being one view forces others to be accepting and the other view expects yourself to be accepting. No sense waiting for others to change if you're not willing to change yourself. Meeting the bare requirements isn't a measure of success or change but rather more how far away it really is
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I think the point you might be missing is that it's all well and good for us to want to change ourselves, but we represent a very, small and uninfluential portion of a larger society in which systemic discrimination and ineqaulity is a very large problem. My own actions and beliefs are not going to change the actions and beliefs of society at large enough to tackle these issues. I agree with you to a certain extent that affirmative action allows people to only meet the bare the minimum, but that's certainly better than allowing them to just blatantly discriminate against anyone with no baseline, is it not?
If you want to call it discrimination, so be it, but I don't really see it that way. I think there needs to be means in which groups that have historically been at a disadvantage and continue to be disadvantaged due to historical and current systemic inequalities that still give white men advantages over other groups just by virtue of being born as white men. Stating that is not discrimination, it's an accurate assessment of the world we live in. We're talking about lived experiences here, and if you or I say that we don't want to discriminate, it doesn't change the obstacles and challenges that these people face on a daily basis.
I apologize if what I said before sounded like I was attacking you. That wasn't my intent, but the way you just brushed off my argument by saying "It's sad when some people just don't get it," wasn't exactly constructive discourse.