[Chill Cosby]

Apologise for the long post. You can more or less skip it if you aren't Cali or aren't looking for clarification on an earlier comment I made.

Originally Posted by Cali Flames Fan

I…I don't even know how to respond to this. You think that anything I've said resembles you name calling people you have a disagreement with? That's a really immature response.

You don't know how to respond? Well, if I could make a suggestion, I would tone down the condescending rhetoric, avoid phrases like "Tough to handle, but that's the way the world works" if you want to eliminate said condescension, not tell someone you can't appeal to others by insulting them while calling them "immature" in the midst of your pervasive condescension, and overall, being the example of how you want someone to act, not the example of how not to act. The term "Glass Houses" wouldn't come up while you're lecturing others on how to have a conversation on a message board if the lecture wasn't unashamedly hypocritical, and while my own missteps may be fully realised, it's unbecoming and a bit ridiculous to lecture someone on the very things you're guilty of yourself.

Originally Posted by Cali Flames Fan

I don't know how you see it that way, that seems to be the point of this discussion. How to make things more inclusive and be less unintentionally offensive. You, on the other hand, seem to act like a martyr throughout this thread, fighting "the good fight", no matter what people actually are saying to you. You're mad at the way our society is constructed, not what individuals are doing or saying, so stop going after individual people. And, even if they say something you don't agree with or might be a little backward, do not talk to them like they are 5 years old because they just "don't get it". It's condescending and completely inaccurate. They get it, they just don't agree with you. Tough to handle, I know, but that's the way the world works.

Again, "offence" is not the issue. It's a bi-product of the issue, but it's not what is being discussed. Saying "offence" is the main issue is similar to claiming Racism or Homophobia are bad just because they're "offensive." For more on what the issue IS, see below (from actual women and a moderator, if you're curious):

Originally Posted by wittynickname

Studies have shown that when men look at women in bikinis, the brain activity is not that of dealing with an entity capable of critical thinking, but instead that of an object, a tool. That's not overt sexism in these men, necessarily, but it's the way society has trained men to view women. Possessions, trophies, objects to be attained.

Originally Posted by Peanut

Yes it's the objectification that veers into misogyny (presenting a woman as a trophy, decoration, or otherwise removing the more "human" characteristics of a woman, such as her face, and presenting them only as a sex object). I believe that falls within the definition of misogyny but I'm no means an expert.

Originally Posted by photon

My original question wasn't really about if something was offensive, it was if it was misogynistic. As in contributing to the cultural issues around the equality of women by continuing to promote objectification of women. Which would of course lead to it being offensive to many, but the offensiveness wasn't the starting point.

It's not about if it's offensive. It is offensive. According to you, the offended are a small minority that you find it frustrating to cater to, so I see why your more interested in the defence of "offence", but unfortunately that isn't the issue. It's not about making the place "less offensive" but rather how to curb misogyny and sexism. It being "less offensive" would be an obvious result.

Originally Posted by Cali Flames Fan

You assume way too much here. I'm upset because you used horrible words to describe men you disagree with, insofar as to make them seem incapable of having the basic intelligence to be more than a grunting caveman. That, right there, is sexist because you are judging these men to be incapable of understanding or learning and are reducing them to a purely physical being with no brain. You also assume that anyone that is offended by those words is also "one of those". If you can't see the problem with that then YOU'RE missing the point now. It's sexism bordering on misandry.

This just in: Calling a misogynist a "lonely boy" is Misandry.

Isn't it a bit silly to make stated assumptions on what you think others are assuming? Considering half of your issues would be avoided had to you avoided rampant assumption. As I already alluded to, my comments were directed to no one in particular, and certainly not "anyone" who disagrees with me, nor any specific poster on the board. I do not know their story or what they think, I'm basing everything on snippets, so it would be ignorant of me to make a character judgement on anyone as a whole. I created a simplistic fiction, and insulted that fiction. If I wanted to name names, I would have. If I wanted someone to know, then they would know. If someone found offence in my statement, then it certainly came from within. Again, why would you be offended by me calling a fictitious misogynist a "Neanderthal"? Are you a misogynist? Or do you self-identify with misogynists? If not, I can't see why you would be offended, I assume you would probably agree.

In the end, I admitted my words were chosen poorly, childish, not specifically intended for anyone, and at best a throwing up of the arms out of frustration. It had been a long day, and I took an ill-advised step. I'm certainly not the perfect human, but I aim to be better and apologise when I stumble. I explained myself, and took the original lump that called out my post... so what's your excuse? Tired of a "martyr" defending women, so you took your shot when you saw a weak spot? Decided you might try a rile him up again? See if he says something else he'll again admit to regretting?

How brilliantly noble and intellectual of you. If you want to talk to each other like intellectuals, a good place to start would be at the start. Can we get back to the topic, whether that be misogyny or just "offence" resulting from the YLYL thread and the culture around it? I'm certainly happy to, I've said all I can say about this rubbish.