[Itse]

Originally Posted by Thor

Two, is sexuality is so often ridiculed, shamed, and in this case an emotional issue that I like to stick to what we know, the science, our best understanding and try to make a rational discussion of something so important, healthy and fun. By suggesting this, nowhere do I condone Misogyny. Men objectify women, the science suggests there is a lot of biological evolution to play here, and because its uncomfortable you shout down me for wanting to discuss it?

I kind of see what you're getting at, but I do think the discussion you're trying to have is hard to have side by side with this one. They're ultimately pretty different discussions.

Sure sexuality as a discussion can be uncomfortable, society loves to demonize, shame and try to tell people what they should or should not be aroused by. Its also quite complex, touches on various scientific fields and its a great topic of calm, rational and thoughtful discussion.

I agree to both points.

I have said, that I think there is nothing wrong with men looking at these photo's, because its natural for us (and women).

This is where we differ.

First of all, "it's natural" is a terrible, terrible argument that has no basis in actual science, or philosophy.

Second, from a purely moral standpoint there is nothing that makes "natural" behavior somehow morally innocent or better (or worse) than some other kind of behavior. Even if we were to accept some definition of "natural" as valid, it's at best a trivial observation that does not bring any real value to a discussion.

Third, from a historical POV a lot of human development is finding new ways to serve our instincts. I don't see any need to protect this specific form, as if we there wasn't enough ways for men in the west to get their sexual kicks in the world.

What I would disagree with is the suggestion that is made often that men who look at these pictures should not, or are misogynistic for doing so.

I think a major issue here is the question of what exactly does "these pictures" mean?

1) Does it matter that you're looking at scantily clad girls in general?
2) Does it matter what exactly is in the picture? (Name, face, pose, clothes...)
3) Does it matter that you're looking at heavily photomanipulated girls?
4) Does it matter that you're looking at anonymous amateur pics for titillation, of which you have no idea of knowing whether or not the girl agreed to them being passed around the internet?
5) Does it matter that you're looking at paparazzi pictures?
Etc etc.

Everyone of those is a discussion on it's own.

Personally I would say that 4) and 5) is in fact bad behavior and at the very least borderline misogynist.

Of course "what exactly is misogynism" would be another discussion needed here. Does it make you more or less misogynistic if you know what you're doing for example?

Thing is, I don't think we can solve all or any of those questions within the scopes of a discussion on what, if anything, should be done to the YLYL thread.