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Originally Posted by jammies
That's an assertion, not an argument. Articles of libertarian faith do not trump reality - "choice" can be limited or entirely eliminated by factors outside the individual's control.
When you are an unskilled labourer, do you have the choice to grab a few million dollars of venture capital to open your own software development company? Does an engineer "choose" to get an engineering-related job, or is his choice circumscribed by his education? If your single mother needs you to drop out of school to help pay the bills for your six brothers and sisters, can you "choose" instead to go off for 7 years to get a law degree and become a lawyer instead?
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In all your examples, you are specifying a single option, not a range of choices. In the case of the labourer, if that person desires to be the owner of a software company they can make choices that, over time, can yield that result. He/she can learn, develop ideas, crowd source funds and ultimately reach his/her goal.
The engineer is not limited to engineering related jobs. That is a choice, regardless of education. Perhaps that person decides to learn another discipline and ends up in a totally unrelated field.
As for the person who is asked to drop out of school to care for his brother/sisters, that is also a choice. Perhaps he/she could do both. Perhaps that person does drop out for a period of time and subsequently resumes study. Perhaps there is other family to help.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jammies
In our current society, I can choose to pay taxes or not, too! Look - your libertarian utopia is achievable today! Just "choose" not to pay taxes, "choose" to ignore laws that circumscribe your economic freedom, and you're golden!
Or maybe your definition of "choice" is ridiculously simplistic. Choice implies the consequences of different actions have somewhat comparable outcomes that a rational person can evaluate and decide between.
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In our current society, there is no choice in taxes. In one form or another, they touch everything. From labour to goods and services, monies are taken and used for causes of which you have little to no say.
And if you are meaning that "comparable outcomes" relates to "similar outcomes", that isn't true at all. Your choice can have radically different outcomes. Not sure what you are getting at with this whole point.
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Originally Posted by jammies
Based on what evidence? Yet again, another axiom of libertarianism glitzed up to sound like an argument.
Back around 100-150 years ago, we had a capitalist/feudalist society that depended upon volunteerism to ameliorate social ills. It was almost universally unsuccessful. And yet, somehow, it'll be different now? Why is that?
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Almost universally unsuccessful? Are you mad?
it is around that time that life expectancy started to climb dramatically. Inventions created in that era have us living like kings now. The health and wealth of society has risen BECAUSE of that era, not in spite of it.
As the saying goes, necessity if the mother of invention. When many individuals had the same needs, it resulted in people finding ways to address them. The state didn't invent the refrigerator. It didn't come up with pasteurization. It didn't conceive and build the light bulb.
Society thrived.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jammies
Oh yes, if you like repression, regimentation, and patriarchy. And, for that matter, communal ownership of property. Does any of that really resonate with libertarian ideals?
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It's a choice they make. Not my cup of tea though.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jammies
The entire philosophy of libertarianism relies upon false premises, so one line is all that really needs addressing. It's a simplistic approach to a world of complexities, and appeals to those who fail to understand that the simpler the system, the easier it is to corrupt and control.
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What false premises? For someone that demands examples, you rarely go into any details yourself.
And according to your logic, if the simpler the system the easier it is to corrupt then how are we faring today? Should corruption and control almost be eliminated by now? We are as complex as ever. And one could argue the same about being controlled.
I am not failing to understand anything. I am also not professing to be all-wise either. I continue to study and learn.
If you were to ask me if I had a button that, if pushed, would immediately eradicate all government, I would NOT push it. There is simply too many people who have developed dependencies on the current system. This is a generational issue and will take time to correct.
Until then, politicians will continue to ensure these dependencies because dependent voters are dependable voters.