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Originally Posted by Red Slinger
That is not racism. Judging Israelis based on their race would be racism. Most people here have been judging the actions of the Israeli government and SOME Israeli citizens.
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It is racism, I am not sure where you are getting your definition from. Even wiki gets into the issue of what we are debating, not just racism but race itself.
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Originally Posted by Red Slinger
Is Israel held to a different standard than the Palenstinians? Yes and they should be. Israel is a liberal democracy that should be held to a higher standard than terrorists like Hamas, or brutal dictators like Assad, or corrupt kingdoms like the Saudi's, or religious extremists like the Ayotalah. Israel is a superior socio/political environment than it's neighbours but that doesn't mean it's perfect and immune from criticism. Throwing out accusations of antisemitism at the first sign of criticism towards Israel is counter-productive to having a reasonable conversation.
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You can hold them to a different standard, that is your choice. But to criticize them while ignoring the missiles, etc. is a different issue. Israel has in my opinion gone through great lengths to minimize civilian casualties. Right now Hamas has been firing 100's of rockets and much of the world will say nothing until Israel defends itself. This is the 'different standard' the world has been using, and quite frankly, Israel doesn't seem to care. They will defend themselves. Military and government quotes have all said the same thing - stop the rockets and we won't fire back.
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Originally Posted by Red Slinger
This thread is a near-perfect microcosm of the actual conflict. There are Palestinian supporters that have a hatred (rational and otherwise) for the state of Israel and can see no good in Israel. There are those that defend Israel no matter what and make excuses for it even when Israel is clearly provoking violence. There are those that can see both sides of the issue and make their arguments and observations impassionately but with compassion and empathy for the suffering on both sides. And finally, there are those who have no idea what they're talking about and should probably stay out of the debate.
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I haven't really seen anything in this thread of Israel provoking Palestinians? At least nothing that even comes close to being even worth mentioning while 100s of rockets are being fired.
Honestly, when the debate moves towards actual Israeli actions, I criticize and support based on what I feel is right or wrong. Usually I side with a more peaceful solution. I have been maligned with this thread regardless of the fact I made no comments that could in any way be viewed as extremist or racist.
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Originally Posted by Red Slinger
The Israel/Palestinian conflict will never be solved (nor will the ongoing debate here) until:
-The Israeli supporters look at the atrocities that Israel HAS committed and hold them to account. And when others do so not label them as anti-semites.
-the Palestinian supporters look at the atrocities that Palestinians, Hamas and virtually every Arab nation in the region (and elsewhere) have committed or attempted to commit against Israel (and continue to do so).
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Israel certainly had it's share of issues, but none have been government sanctioned. Nor has Israel been judged on the same level as those that have targeted civilians. Hamas, and other state sanctioned militant groups have killed and targeted far more Arabs than they have Israel. What do they usually have in common? The goal of the destruction of Israel. Right now there are some very upset families in Israel because their own friends or family members were a part of the murder of a Palestinian kid. The rest of the country is angry as well.
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Originally Posted by Red Slinger
As it stands, each side is so firmly entrenched in their position (both in the region and on this board) that any hope for real peace is unlikely any time soon. The irony is that most Israelis and Palestinians in the region legitimately want peace. When I lived in the area there was very little day to day hostility towards each other. People just went on with their lives. As a matter of fact, my Israeli friend had a best friend that was Palestinian. However, there are powerful factions on both sides that actively destabilize the relationship and the region for their own gain and these factions have successfully infiltrated the psyche and soul of this conversation. It's hard not to get emotional in these kinds of conversation but it's necessary for progress.
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As I keep saying, there won't be a chance for much while people are afraid of Hamas and children are indoctrinated into this hatred.