[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by MattyC

Well they didn't have a lot of choice after they assassinated the best one and then assassinated his brother, who likely would have been the next best one.

But Clinton was very good, minus his marriage issue.

The funny part is every "bad" thing Obama has done has been trying to clean up Bush's mess. That or communism. Either one.

Eisenhower is the best president since WWII in my opinion, not Kennedy, though Ike's legacy is tainted in several significant ways, Cuba, Vietnam, Latin America, 'Red Scare'. He was still the most substantive president of the time period in question though. . Kennedy is a popular pick because of the assassination, but I think the trajectory of his presidency was rocky.

In defence of both men, the privatization of the American political process was by then essentially complete, and the promotion of prominent corporate interests into positions of federal power was deeply influential in the promotion of differing political policies of dubious merit. The other aspect was the intelligence apparatus of the US at the time was an almost uncontrolled separate government entity that in some ways forced the hand of policy makers. Things were reeled in somewhat in the 1970s as the soviet communist threat began to diminish It was essentially an irresistible force that took hold during the presidency of Truman and had solidified itself by the end of Eisenhower's presidency. He'd be the last president that wasn't party to it at the beginning of his presidency.

Originally Posted by the_only_turek_fan

I don't think Reagan was the best, but he was Top 3 (Clinton, Ike the others) since 1945.

Care to explain why you think folks that think RR was the best have a low IQ?

Reagan was perhaps the worst president in US history. An egregious international criminal, a domestic fraud and soothsayer, a caricature of a phoney stuffed suit president who presided over and engaged in treasonous actions as President. His alzheimers while in office made him mentally corruptible, but also gave him plausible deniability in what are clearly criminal actions.

His administration established stronger ties with Apartheid South Africa, for example. He opposed the release of Nelson Mandela. Real stand-up guy.

Millions of lives were negatively affected by the presidency of Ronald Reagan. The course of American politics were irrevocably changed for the worse, and the accountability of the office was forever diminished.

Richard Nixon is the only president who is competitive, but the only caveat for him is that his legacy is forever tarnished. Reagan's celebration is for me, part of his awful legacy. The celebration and normalization of lunatic, immoral politics.

Originally Posted by nik-

Reagan was an awful president. He gets credit for "winning the Cold War" and thus is deified, but he helped institute a lot of the #### that has caused the US to get into their current problems.

Also, hilariously enough, if Reagan ran now, he wouldn't even get past the primaries. They wouldn't even elect their god because he's not right wing enough.

Sarah Palin is the Ronald Reagan of the 21st century. Reagan would absolutely get elected, he was far more of a fringe candidate in many respects than he is remembered for.

Originally Posted by Displaced Flames fan

Clinton best. Carter worst.

That's my opinion.

Jimmy Carter has been a stellar ex-President to his credit.

I think Carter gets an unfair rating because it's almost become the celebrate chorus. It's the known punchline. In practical terms though I think history looks back on Carter far more favourably than Reagan, Ford, Nixon or H.W. Bush, his historical contemporaries.

In fact, Carter is an Island in an otherwise scum-sea of political operatives, criminals and establishment political royalty.

Maybe that's why he's perceived popularly as a 'bad' president.

Originally Posted by the_only_turek_fan

He also fixed the economy that Jimmy Carter left as a complete disaster.

There's a comparable to Obama and Jimmy Carter, and the disaster in which they took office. Post Vietnam, Soviet invasion of Afghanistan, domestic nuclear power accident, the Iranian Revolution, and then manipulation behind the scenes by his political opponents to actually delay the release of American hostages for political gain...