[Bleeding Red]

Originally Posted by Tinordi

Israel is by any definition a pariah state

Please share the definition so i have a frame of reference.

that doesn't make me an anti-semite. The fact that you would lob that grenade so early into this conversation shows how little you have to argue or offer about it.

I've already commented on the sad tactic of labeling commentators as anti-Semetic, but sometimes the blade cuts both ways - "go ahead a refute my point, you'll just call me an anti-Semite" is a poor deflector.

Well, between 2013 and 2014 Israel entered into formal peace negotiations with the Palestinians. During that time they seized 50% more land for illegal settlements than the year before and displaced 75% more people. Supposedly while peace negotiations were on.

For other readers - Settlements are a red herring. The Israeli government has proven that they will remove settlements for peace - they removed settlements in Sinai for peace with Egypt; They removed settlements in Gaza without an official agreement and got rocket & mortar fire into their communities. Israel still removes those few outposts that spring up with trailers in the West Bank. Most of any building has been within the "blocs" that have been included as land swaps in the peace process since 1993.

One article questioning the "illegality" of the settlements:
http://http://www.theblaze.com/stori...s-are-illegal/

One article arguing that they are indeed illegal:
http://http://www.jpost.com/Opinion/...nal-law-336507

Here's the thing with people who can't see rationally on this issue. They don't understand the fundamental dynamics that there are no other concessions the Palestinians can offer at this point.

I like to believe that I can look at the issue somewhat rationally and understand the fundamentals.

The fact is that the Palestinians can offer many concessions.
- Concede the right of return and negotiate a compensation package
- Disarm the many militias in area 'C' of the West Bank
- Talk about peace with Israel, living side by side as neighbours in both English & Arabic
- Acknowledge the Jewish ties to the Land of Israel and Jerusalem (According to the PA there was never a Jewish Temple in Jerusalem.)
- Renounce violence (they say Hamas has, but Hamas leaders have never said that)
- Make public efforts to end incitement - Get rid of the textbooks that don't show Israel or equate Jews & Christians to apes & pigs
- Officially change their Charter by removing those sections that call for the destruction of Israel.

And, Yes, Israel can go farther too:
- Stop all construction in the West Bank
- Remove checkpoints that do not lead directly into Israel.
- Give the PA an opportunity to assert it's authority before rushing in.
- Expedite due process on accused terrorists so that no one is held with out charge.
- Agree to accept some family reunion immigration

(and yes, I am sure there is more all around)


In North America Jews who express the far left opinion are often ridiculed, called A"self-hating" and are not invited to parties they wouldn't want to go to anyway. In Israel they are both respected and called names.

A Palestinian mob beat up to Palestinians today because they looked like they might be Israelis.

An Israeli leader goes left publicly s/he will likely only lose their seat in Parliament (though Tzipi Livni seems to be holding on just fine).

A Palestinian leader who publicly calls for peace and concessions is likely to lose his life.

Some posts have noted "treatment of minorities" - Interestingly Israel has never insisted that it's Arab minority move to Palestine during the peace process. It is the Palestinians that have demanded that no Jews live in their country, even as dhimnis (Islamic second class citizens).

I am happy to debate policies on both sides - house demolitions; school textbooks; security fences; violent resistance.

But I also look out for the three 'D's of antisemitism - Double standards, Delegitimization, and De-humanization (demonization).