[ernie]

Originally Posted by photon

Can you point out where I said that? If not why would you assume that's what I'm saying?

You talked about social stigma about long hair that shouldn't be present. It is present and that stigma goes into people's perceptions of what presentable is.

Having short hair does not equate to "put yourself together", there's short haired slobs that I'd never want to put in front of a customer, and long haired professionals that will have more success than I'll ever imagine.

Never said short hair meant presentable. Presentable is clearly a whole package type of thing. And fact is you'll find far far far far more successful people in the short hair, neat and presentable category rather than the sort hair/slob or long hair/presentable. And that prevelance of sets a societal norm that people are typically expected to meet.

I never said to ignore professionalism. Reply to what I say, not a point I didn't make.

But it is part of professionalism based on the norm set by the profesisonal society. No not in every industry but most.

Teaching a kid to marginalize others based only on their appearance and that that's a good thing is probably more harmful to the kid and society than teaching him that he has to not be an individual and conform to succeed, or teaching him that success and how others see you is more important than your own individuality.. if we want to hypothesize implicit lessons being taught.

I never said taking away individuality. However, there is very much a balance when raising a kid. It isn't difficult to express individuality while a the same time lining yourslef up for success by meeting the societal norms. even if they are "stupid" societal norms. That is the lesson that IMO should be taught. It isn't all about "you". Like it or not your success in life will be dependent on how you are viewed and appearance etc is all a part of that (again sad but true. It makes no sense to ignore it). Coaches aren't just teaching a game. They are part of raising a child. This is something that is still very much expected in most businesses and industries as part of looking professional, neat, put together or whatever you want to call it.

And no one is being marginalized. He is free to play baseball elsewhere. It was a rule that was well known. His parents are also free to not have their son play on such a team because they don't agree with the rule. But you don't get to complain about it. You run into rules all over the place you don't agree with be it an actual law or company/organization bylaw or societal norm or whatever and sometimes you just have to suck it up and live with it. Seems like this is an apt life lesson to me.

The length of hair doesn't make one unpresentable.

Never said it did BUT it does feed into the opinion that people have of you.

Am I to assume that if you have kids you never make comments on what they are wearing or how they look based on the place they are headed, what is expected in such a place and just let them be "individuals"? I somehow very much doubt that. It's a lofty thing to say but such a thing doesn't last beyond the first few weeks of a kid dressing themselves.

And yes team sports, coaches etc are an extension of parenting. So again if the parents don't agree then you find another team, not complain about a transparent and known rule.

Why does this man look sad? Because he was rejected in his 10th interview because of his long hair.

Industries are different. Safe to say the fashion world is not the societal norm when it comes to business and professionalism.

Anyways I'm done....it's not marginalization. It's not a ludicrous rule. It's a rule that many teams and youth organizations have. And it's a rule that makes a lot of sense when it comes to setting a kid up for success because sometimes it is important to meet the societal norms. It doesn't rob someone of becoming an individual with individual style etc.