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Textcritic · 05-31-2006, 04:18 PM

I don't believe the mirror experiment described in the article can explain anything about an animal's self-awareness. To necessarily do so, I believe one must prove that a given animal has developed a concept of time, and can recognize the past from the present and the future. My cat and my dogs "recognize" their reflection in the mirror for what it is, but in no way would I suggest that they are even remotely "self-aware". When they were puppies, my dogs would frequently be startled by their own reflection, and attempt to interact with it, and my cats would do the same. With time, they all learned to simply ignore the mirror, not because they did not wish to interact with the reflection, but simply because they instinctivley recognize that the image in the mirror is not an animal. If my Australian Shepherd ever thought her reflection was another dog, it stands to reason that she would react in the same manner that she does whenever she encounters another dog (a fairly predictable, and not a very desirable response). My pets all have the ability to develop responses to patterns and stimulae; it is called "instinctively learned behaviour" (Pavlov's dog, anyone?). But nothing about this behaviour suggests to me that my dogs and cat have developed any sort of concept of time. They do not plan for the future; they do not anticipate consequences; they do not "remember" past experiences or events (at least not in the ame sense that we do). They respond or reacte. They seek apporval only because they have come to sense that it is beneficial. They form relationships with us akin to those among pack animals in the wild, through which they have come to depend on for their perceived survival. If animals experience any sort of emotion, it is at best limited and simple. They may be described as happy, sad, or angry; there is no "disappointed" or "jaded" or "hate". When dog's play, it is for the purpose of functioning within the pack. When they fight, it is for the purpose of establishing a place within the pack. I love my dogs, and because I must imprint upon them athropomorphic and anthropopathic designations to comprehend their actions and behaviours, I like to believe that they "love" me to. In reality this is, however, simply not the case.

05-31-2006, 04:18 PM	#36
Textcritic Acerbic Cyberbully Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: back in Chilliwack Exp:	I don't believe the mirror experiment described in the article can explain anything about an animal's self-awareness. To necessarily do so, I believe one must prove that a given animal has developed a concept of time, and can recognize the past from the present and the future. My cat and my dogs "recognize" their reflection in the mirror for what it is, but in no way would I suggest that they are even remotely "self-aware". When they were puppies, my dogs would frequently be startled by their own reflection, and attempt to interact with it, and my cats would do the same. With time, they all learned to simply ignore the mirror, not because they did not wish to interact with the reflection, but simply because they instinctivley recognize that the image in the mirror is not an animal. If my Australian Shepherd ever thought her reflection was another dog, it stands to reason that she would react in the same manner that she does whenever she encounters another dog (a fairly predictable, and not a very desirable response). My pets all have the ability to develop responses to patterns and stimulae; it is called "instinctively learned behaviour" (Pavlov's dog, anyone?). But nothing about this behaviour suggests to me that my dogs and cat have developed any sort of concept of time. They do not plan for the future; they do not anticipate consequences; they do not "remember" past experiences or events (at least not in the ame sense that we do). They respond or reacte. They seek apporval only because they have come to sense that it is beneficial. They form relationships with us akin to those among pack animals in the wild, through which they have come to depend on for their perceived survival. If animals experience any sort of emotion, it is at best limited and simple. They may be described as happy, sad, or angry; there is no "disappointed" or "jaded" or "hate". When dog's play, it is for the purpose of functioning within the pack. When they fight, it is for the purpose of establishing a place within the pack. I love my dogs, and because I must imprint upon them athropomorphic and anthropopathic designations to comprehend their actions and behaviours, I like to believe that they "love" me to. In reality this is, however, simply not the case.