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Originally Posted by calculoso
Gotcha.
Kyoto = best. Must be followed.
To question = pointless and be called a troll.
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I never called you a troll. Get your facts straight. You can seriously look at the first post in this thead and call it something else? I thought it was pretty obvious that this thread was created to 'troll' for Kyoto supporters. You don't see that in post #1?
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To present alternatives = useless, unless coming from an expert.
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Not even close. To present alternatives = better than to present nothing. You started with nothing. You got to alternatives... slowly, painfully, with me dragging you the whole way. Finally you get it, so I'm satisfied.
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To state opinion, confront and ask for yours, then state opinion again = pulling teeth.
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Your original opinion needed to be fleshed out. I asked you, over and over again, to present an alternative. Then you did. Thanks.
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We obviously aren't on the same wavelength. You don't want to put any thought into improving something you admit is flawed.
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I'm not employed by any environmental agency. Its not my job to improve something I admit is flawed. The Canadian government is flawed. The UN is flawed. The legal system is flawed. Am I suppose to crusade for all these causes because I know they're flawed?
Do you? Or do you think all of these things are 'flawless'? Just because you see a problem does not morally obligate you to fix it, unless you choose to take that obligation on. I don't... its sounds like you're saying you do, but I'm not sure, beyond arguing with me, what _you're_ doing about it. I haven't suggested that I'm morally superior to you, but you seem to be constantly making judgements along this vein, or putting them in my mouth.
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No sense in debating with you anymore. On any subject. Neither one of us is experts, so our opinions are worthless.
Gotcha.
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Not how I would put it, but basically correct. Not sure I ever used the word 'worthless'. I did point out that there are experts that support both sides of the argument... and, in the end, regardless of how you feel, I will _always_ respect the opinion of an 'expert' on either side of the debate than I will your or my opinion on the matter. I guess you think our knowledge is sufficient to pass judgement on massive, complicated issues. I don't. Thats why we pay the experts.
That's not to say the every-day-person doesn't have valid input. But if one person spends their life researching a topic, and the other has a bare layman's knowledge of the issue, I'm going to tend to trust the expert. I don't see this statement = experts are god, you are nothing.