[Azure]

Successful? I am not sure how you define 'success' but in order to justify 2 trillion+ dollars spent, thousands of American lives lost, tens of thousands of Iraqi lives lost, pre-emptive war and its disasterous effects on the global stage including the justification for the two most dangerous nations on earth to persue nuclear arms faster then otherwise, and the decades if not centuries it will take future generations of Americans to pay off those deficits it better be REALLY REALLY REALLY successful.

Its obvious you don't want the US to suceed. Sucess would be defined as a democratic government being established that has the ability to hold power through economic, political and military status.

Is that impossible? No. Why? Because daily progress is being made. Of course if you want to look at the negative side of everything, death and destruction, no one would define Iraq as a sucess. But the same could be said for WW1 and 2.

Maybe we should ask the Iraqi people what "they" think about the war. Of course the numerous polls that have been conducted have all shown the Iraqi people will a favourable viewpoint of their life. But there are always idiots like yourself that try to downgrade that.

Like one of my brothers(currently stationed in Iraq) once said, "if you've never been here, then shut the hell up." The media presents "one" side of the story.

Now if you mean 'successs' as in being able to withdraw and hold relative peace from afar for ~1yr, until all hell breaks loose, but just long enough for the average American to forget about the people there just like they did in Vietnam then i agree with you it is a possibility but that is not success. And it is FAR more likely to happen in 2009/2010 then in 2007.

All hell breaks lose? The US was winning the war in Vietnam under Nixon. Until Watergate that is. Then the US, under the democrats pulled out and the communist forces overtook all of Vietnam and killed millions of innocent civilians. Suprisingly to the left-wing media out there, thats a forgotten reality.

Isn't that what Vietnam was for?

Or even Korea?

How many times does the lesson need to be taught?

Neither Vietnam nor Korea were fought on terms that weren't justified. I guess you're on of those people that would have protested the US fighting Germany in WW2, since it was actually Japan that attacked Pearl Harbour.

And don't kid yourself about America v. Iran. (1) America is more bogged down then you seem to realize and IMHO would have to implement a draft in order to invade and hold Iran, (2) Iran is what, like twice the size with three times the population and 5 times the military of post-sanctions Iraq, (3) the economic consequences of invading Iran would grind America to a hault.

The US could take Iran out in one strike. But I really don't understand why you would think they would do it alone. Israel has a capable military, capable enough to invade Iran and take over.

Like Firefly once said on this board. Wars are good for the economy, and the US invading Iraq would only drive up the GDP even more. But I guess if the UN sits on their ass and doesn't do anything against Iran, it will be left to the US to deal with their idiot of a President.

Not saying America wouldn't win, i think they would obviously win over the long term IF they had support of their people, but the costs would be FAR higher then the American people are KNOWINGLY willing to endure.

What cost? The cost of democracy is never too high, and if the US can establish a sucessful democracy in Iraq, it would be the domino effect going the other way.