Quote:
Originally Posted by 19Yzerman19
Um, wtf? What are you even talking about? This makes no sense. First of all, your meaning of "in the conversation" may be different than mine, but it doesn't mean yours is correct. My meaning would be that you could have a conversation as to the relative merits of each in an attempt to resolve a difference of opinion as to who is better. Second of all, I'm perfectly able to compare Jason Spezza to Matt Stajan, or any other player. What the hell is "logically compare"?
I didn't say they were both #1 because they play big minutes. I said they were #1 because they are among the best centers in the NHL. There are 30 teams, therefore there should be 30 number 1 guys. That's my perspective. It has nothing to do with what team they're on. You can disbelieve it, but I don't think there's any reasonable basis for holding a higher standard for what "#1" means, you're just drawing an arbitrary line that would be no more valid than if someone said "the elite C's in the NHL by my own reckoning are Crosby, Malkin, Toews, Stamkos and Tavares, therefore they're the only #1 C's".
I don't deny that you don't NEED one. You could get by with Columbus's forwards if you have a really good defense and strong goaltending.
It's pretty simple: there are 30 teams. Therefore there are 30 #1 Cs, 30 #1 Gs, 60 top pairing defensemen.
Because they're not in the top 30. If they arguably are, then they're arguably #1 C's. It's not hard to understand.
My system isn't broken and even if it were you wouldn't have provided a coherent reason why it is. Just citing something you disagree with does not constitute a counterargument. But you're misstating my point anyway - Kreijci, for me, isn't debatable because he's a top 30 center in the league. How Boston deploys him isn't relevant. Bergeron, for me, is a better centre than Kreijci, but they're both #1's because they're both top 30.
I have actually presented a rational basis for what I think the term means. You have none whatsoever outside of your gut feeling. "High level of talent" and "relied on to carry his team" are just meaningless hockey-flavoured words. There will always be some element of subjectivity in this discussion but yours is no more worthwhile than throwing out a list of guys you think are good at hockey.
|
Allllright, calm down.
My point was that you can compare Toews and Spezza because they aren't far off skill wise, but you can't compare (logically) Stajan and Spezza. You can compare them all you want, but if you're having a conversation of who is better and you're trying to say it's Stajan, then you aren't using logic. Thus, they cannot be logically compared talent wise. It would be like comparing Lundqvist and McElhinney. You CAN, but there's no logic in having that conversation.
You're all over the place man:
- You say "you're drawing an arbitrary line", but you do that very same thing between who is a #1 and who is #2. It's not a bad thing, but that's what we're discussing, where the "line" is.
- You say there are 30 teams so there are 30 #1 centers, but according to you Pittsburgh and Boston both have two, so your statement doesn't make sense. What does 30 teams have to do with it? If one team has 2 centers, does another team have to have zero?
- First you say Bergergon is a clear #1 and Krejci is debatable (since he could, for arguments sake, be replaced by another who could move into your "top 30"). Then you say Krejci ISN'T debatable because he's a top 30 guy. You then, after whining about me stating my opinion without backing it up, say that Bergeron is better than Krejci, even though he is the #1 center in Boston. I suppose you have something to back up why you know better than the Bruins?
Your whole argument is kind of silly. You're getting upset because I'm stating my opinion, and not backing it up with evidence that you find suitable, but it's an OPINION bro, cool your jets. I pretty clearly stated that it was just how I look at #1 centers, and you took it upon yourself to try and argue against my opinion, mighty tough thing to do.
So go ahead, argue away. It was always my opinion and nothing I had ever stated as fact. Enjoy yourself.