[valo403]

Originally Posted by pylon

BS.

I see a ton of fresh grads making excellent money right out of University. A big part of the problem is, the current crop of kids, want a $500k home, a $50k BMW, and a vacation cottage before 30. And expect the income to support that.

My dad was a draftsman making about $850/mth, out of school in the late 60's, which was good entry level money then, and my folks scraped together every penny they could, drove a $150 1959 Beetle for 2 years, lived in a basement suite where my dad did building maintenance for $50/mth, and considered spam good cuts of meat for cripes sake, so they could scratch together a $5000 down payment, for a $20,000 home in Canyon Meadows. That sacrifice no longer exists. People just ask mommy and daddy for their down payment now. Even I am guilty of that one myself on my first home.

People now want everything NOW, and that is the problem. That expectation leads to expecting 6 figures out of school. A ton of the jobs are going over seas and to South America now at half the rate, because everyone feels entitled to a CEO salary, without having to work their way through the ranks.

The entitlement issue is not a myth IMO. And a huge reason a lot of these old crodgers are being kept around, is because the work ethic is totally different. I work with a guy who is 66 years old, that can twice as much done in a day and at a higher level of accuracy and quality, than someone half his age, myself included. He comes to work, to work. Not youtube, or twit, or facebook.... work. How valuable do you think a guy like that is to a company?

I am only 39, and even the guys in their 20's that work with me, are shocked, I will put in 10-15 hours of overtime a week and come in on Sunday when I have to, if I have to just to get the job done. And I am not even technically paid for it the way my pay is structured. But that is why, I got to where I did. I am a company man, as are the two other guys in my department, who are all a little older. People bounce around now, and have next to no dedication to their employers. It is hard enough to get the current kids coming through ranks to show up for their shift a half an hour early for a meeting for gods sake. When in reality, you should be half an hour early for that meeting. And these are people I only have a 10-15 year gap on.

I am not saying this applies to everyone, as there a few guys I see, that are actually getting the picture now. But as a whole, it is an entirely different attitude now. Myself, I am definitely on the unhealthy side of the fence. I am a classic workaholic, who doesn't know when to just put the pen down a shut the computer off some days. But on the flip side, I see way too much 'bare minimum' being put out as well. Once these gen Y'ers understand that it is earned, not handed out. And once they learn they aren't "Special little babies that deserve everything" like their mommy and daddy told them, then maybe they will start pushing out some of the old guys takin' their jerbs.

Now get the hell off my lawn.

I agree with most of that, particularly the parts about entitlement, but there are two parts I take issue with.

First, I'm not sure what you're calling BS on. That people are graduating with record levels of debt isn't an opinion, it's a fact. It's not quite the problem in Canada as it is in the US, but it's still an issue. Your Dad scraped together money to buy that house, which is great, but people today are scraping together money to pay off their loans. Some people might be able to do both, most cannot.

Second, the whole notion of a "company man" and loyalty to an employer. That went out the window when employers demonstrated that they weren't going to value loyalty, and they sure as hell weren't going to be loyal to employees. There may be companies out there that have retained those values, but in general employees need to look out for their best interests, because their employers certainly aren't going to do it.