Quote:
Originally Posted by saillias
Not gonna quote that massive post, but I have to say I disagree with you all around. We have no leadership. There is no one on this team I want wearing the C. Hell after last night's game I'm ready to give it to Reinhart which is pretty sad. Oilers had plenty of good prospects. They fizzled. And if you want to make direct comparisons player by player they had a Gagner or Cogliano to our Backlund and guys like Pitkanen to Brodie.
At the current rate we're right on the same trajectory until we get some competent management IMO
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Agreed on the 'C' thing - I don't see any real captains on this team.
However, I do see 2 things that the Oilers didn't have - able bodied veterans with decent leadership abilities.
VETS:
Giordano, Cammaleri, Wideman, Stajan (especially after being the 'whipping boy', he has overcome that adversity nicely), Stempniak, Hudler... These are all guys that play hard most nights. Glencross is 'pouty', but he will be very beneficial to have for helping to shoulder the load, as will Tanguay. Oilers had Hemsky (Tanguay), Horcoff (Stajan - at least this season), Penner and who? I think Flames are ahead there. Oilers gouged that team too deeply I think in their rebuild.
Young Roster Players:
Backlund = Gagner. I think Gagner was ahead of Backlund actually - brought more offence. Backlund brings a bigger body and way better defence. Pitkanen = Brodie. Fair. They also had Smid I think. Maybe a slight edge to the Oilers on that one, depending on how you see Horak, Byron and Bouma as 'young NHL guys' or still prospects. I view them as prospects.
Goalies:
Dubnyk I think has been getting better, and I actually think he is an ABOVE AVERAGE starter. Flames have a long list of 'solid' prospects, but unproven. Oilers didn't have much except for Khabi. Dubnyk doesn't have stats that blow any of the top 3 or 4 Flames' prospects out of the water, and he was their ONLY notable goalie prospect with upside. Flames are ahead there. Gillies, Brossoit, Ramo, Ortio and now Berra are all legitimate prospects. I would put Gillies at Dubnyk's level, Brossoit just a bit below, and there are 3 more pretty decent alternatives to balance that out with. Flames are DEFINITELY ahead of the curve on that one, no? Am I missing any notables from the Oilers' side?
Defensive prospects:
Flames have Breen, Kulak, Culkin, Wotherspoon, Seiloff, Ramage and Cundari. Who did the Oilers have? Jeff Petry, Theo Peckham, Taylor Chorney, Cody Wild, Alex Plante, and Johan Motin. Without comparing the list of of how the Oilers' prospects turned out, but rather how good and how much promised they showed in 2009 compared to what the Flames have NOW (which wouldn't be fair and would be disingenuous of me to do so), I think you still have to give the 'win' to the Flames there - and I don't even consider the Flames to have a really good Defensive prospect base.
Forward Prospects:
Eberle vs Baertschi - tough one to compare. Baertschi already has more NHL time, but Eberle is really good. Potential at that level? Tough to say. "Mr. Clutch" vs "Mr. WHL 2.0 GPG". I don't honestly know how to rank Eberle back then, to Baertschi now.
Gaudreau, Reinhart, Jankowski, Granlund, Arnold, Deblouw, Horak, Aliu, Bouma, Elson, Ferland, Hanowski, Agostino, Nemisz, Gordon and Byron
vs Riley Nash, Rob Schremp, Linus Omark, Chris Vande Velde, Teemu Hartikainen, Ryan Potulny, Slava Trukno, Philippe Cornet, Jean-Francois Jacques, Liam Reddox, Ryan O'Marra and Ryan Stone. Go through their list of potential there and see how they measure up between the Oilers then, and the Flames now.
Conclusion:
Oilers were a very poor drafting team. Flames have been turning that around lately, though until they get more impact players in the lineup, that point is debatable.
This is my point. The Flames are AHEAD of the Oilers now compared to what the Oilers were when they suddenly found themselves at the bottom of the standings.
Then compare the Oilers to other bottom teams post '05, and you see the only ones that have really stayed there are teams that don't spend to the cap, which is why I say the Oilers are an anomaly in how long their rebuild is taking, compared to the rest of the league, and thus you can't really 'expect' the same thing to happen to the Flames.
It isn't a 'guarantee' that the Flames will be quicker, but the Oilers are really the 'worst case scenario', and I believe historically now the worst modern day team from that perspective, (Quebec challenging them years ago - but that was really in a tough time for Canadian teams, and in a league without parity) so why do people assume the Flames will match it?