[HOZ]

Originally Posted by Lanny_MacDonald

Hmmmm, seems the opposite. When someone gives that equation you some how always come up with 11.

Check these out. They're not game tapes, but they should help you with you math challenges.

http://www.westshore.edu/webs/ltc/basic_math.htm



As I said earlier...

"If anything this is a solid deal for stability in the region. Geo-politically this will give leverage to Pakistan. Iran and Pakistan are very close and Indian dependency on Iranian natural gas gives Pakistan a potential pressure point they can exploit. The most ironic thing is that this deal aids in the stabalization of a region that America has been the key player in destabilizing."

This does not change anything between Pakistan and India, nor between Pakistan and Iran. Pakistan and Iran are still Islamic countries with a Shia foundation who see the Hindu Indians as infidels. If push comes to shove the religious alignment over rules the economic deal in a heartbeat.



Wow, no kidding? And I thought the Iranians had come up with a new delivery mechanism for natural gas.

So this pipeline, do you think it can used strategically as leverage against India? You think for a second that this pipeline will not be held over the heads of the Indians when push comes to shove? As soon as India becomes dependent on Iranian natural gas that pipeline is their life blood. Cut that off and you cripple a good chunk of India's industry. Gee, no benefit there for the Pakistanis!



And why? No one ****es and moans about the Israelis having nukes, and they are just as losse a cannon as any Islamic country. With the acquisition of the bomb comes the responsibility of the bomb. When you have it you immediately become a target for every nation on the planet that has one too. If your weapon is used, you have pretty well guaranteed that your country ceases to exist. I'd much rather have that situation that one where someone covertly buys one and has carte blanche to use it, knowing that it will be exceptionally hard to trace.



As I said eariler...

"And don't count the Indians on America's side. They have long been an ally of the Russians and continue to be so. As I pointed out, the deal swung with America was nothing more than a fall back position should Mussarif get assassinated and ISI take over the government. Its all a balancing act right now as America continues to try and manufacture support in a region where they are considered the greatest of all evils."

India has been a long time ally of Russia, and will continue to be so. This deal does not sever decades of Indo-Russian democratic alignment. This deal was made to keep Pakistan in line. You remember Pakistan? The long time American ally (if you can call buying weapons an ally) who is fundamentally aligned with Iran and Al Qaeda. It will be interesting to see where the roaches scurry should the lights come on in the region. I suspect that India will revert back to their long time supporter (Russia) and the Islamic countries will side together (Iran and Pakistan) and the Americans will be left holding the bag, that will have Mussaraf's head in it.



The most immediate reason is Indians need for energy for their burgeoning economy. Indian influence on Iran will be minimal. India is another consumer of a product that Iran has to sell. If they don't want it, someone else will.



A "close" relationship with the "largest democracy in the world". Wow, there's a load of bull****. Funny, but in one breath you **** and moan about Iran getting nuclear technology but have no problem with the United States sharing it with India. You're going to have to explain that brilliance. You claim the United States has to save the world from more nuclear weapons, but then say what a great thing it is that India is getting the technology. Wow!

I see that you have come around to mine and the Captain's view of history with regards to Japan. I suggest you read about the Yamamoto. Japan's super battleship. Very interesting. It was used during the attack on Pearl Harbor...but was kept so far away to keep it safe from attack. They then basically kept it hid away for the war because it was too valuable to lose! They finally sent it down to Okinawa to deal the Americans the devastating blow that they needed to have an "honorable" peace. It never made it.

Come around to it? In what way? I said that the dropping of Little Boy was unnecessary and that Fat Man was nothing more than over-kill and a warning to the Soviets. I stand by that. The war was essentially over when Tokyo was fire bombed. The Americans wanted to use their new toy (proof of concept for the billions they spent on it) and Japanese diplomats were dragging their heels on language of the surrender. Not much change.

Can you not reply to the post as a whole? The continual cutting of each individual sentence I post and replying to each as though they are separate entities is quite juvenile.

As for the pipeline....

You are the one who asked this.....
"WTF??? How does this deal help the United States in any shape or fashion? The United States is no longer an export economy, its a consumer economy. WTF does America make that Indians can't get elsewhere, and cheaper? Yeah, a developing economy is going to over-pay for inferior products from America. Brilliant thinking."

Hence my explanation. The 40 billion dollar gas deal was to show how close the Iranians and Indians are and how the US hopes they can get India to use their influence with Iran. Not Pakistan.

As for your moral equivalence with regards to Isreal and Iran I not sure how you can say this. This is just another example of how silly you have become.

1) Israel has never said it will wipe a country off the face of the world once they get a nuclear weapon like the Iranians have

2) Iran supports, monetarily and weapons, terrorist groups that explicitly state that their goal is to destroy Israel.

3) Since the Iranians obviously can't strike Israel or the US directly what is to stop them from handing a nuke over to a terrorist group to do the work for them?


As for your historical knowledge of WWII. I suggest more than a few good books that do not have the more recent additions of "The Nuke weren't necessary /I hate America" bent in them. The Americans looked on the bombs as deliverance from 4 costly years of war!

The Russians were not going to do anything until Hiroshima. August 8th Molotov called the Japanese Ambassador (Japan was still hoping even after Hiroshima to get the Soviets to negaotiate a more favourable peace deal) to inform him that on August 9th Stalin ordered the invasion East Asia and Japan. Now where the contraversy starts is that the US never really tried to find out if Hiroshima or the Soviet entry into the fight changed Japan's minds. But then no one in Japan stepped on the peddle either to speed things up. Truman was ready, and stated, to drop 2, 3 or more bombs on Japan to save American lives. August 8th the order to drop the second bomb was given. The bomb was dropped on August 9th on Nagasaki.

I provided the dates to show you that the second bomb had nothing to do with the Russians. Whether it was necessary or not...