[Cheese]

Originally Posted by onetwo_threefour

I would disagree in that I think you are using the term agnostic incorrectly. I am completely certain that I don't believe in the God of the Bible, but call myself an agnostic atheist, because I know that I know I can't prove the negative, even as regards a spiteful, misogynist, brutal and inconsistent God as described in the Bible. Saying I'm agnostic is not fence sitting in any way, it's an epistemological acknowledgment.

While some or even many people may indeed be fence-sitters as you describe them, I would argue that they're not so much agnostic about God's actual existence as they are unsure of whether they personally are theist or atheist. Theist and atheist aren't the only two options as much as people try to dichotomize things. There is a middle option of "I'm not sure if I believe in God or not." That's closer to what you're describing and while a lot of people in that position call themselves agnostic, IMO it's not the proper terminology because it's not that their own state of belief in God is unknowable, they just aren't sure what they believe at the point in time you're asking them. This is where people start getting into arguments about strong and weak agnosticism.

My point is that many people are strongly atheist and epistemologically agnostic coming from a well reasoned logical perspective, not an uncertainty or lack of confidence in their disbelief. I would say it that most scientifically minded atheists who use the term agnostic atheist are closer to the position I describe than the one you describe.

I would argue that your position is not much different than mine. I dont disagree that there is a middle option at all...in fact I concur that there is, and that space is generally used by those on their way in...or on their way out, and generally those that simply cannot make up their minds one way or the other at a specific time and place. What I dont like is the cube model as posted above that gives a multiple of variants to the types of atheists, agnostic or theist. It simply provides more opportunity for providing an excuse one way or the other.
I simply have not met any agnostics who have a firm view of that perch outside of..."Im just not sure"...or "I dont want to hedge my bet against the possibility". Neither of those positions suggest a confidence in that position whether it be belief or non.