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Originally Posted by TitovFTW
Wins as a team get you into the playoffs!!!! Can you not see the difference between a team record and a pitchers W-L record not being used as an accurate measure to rank a pitcher? The Giants won this year because they got great production out of the top of their rotation, they have a great bullpen and the NL's best offense in the second half. You've yet to refute any of my arguments. W-L records for pitchers don't matter because they can be so decieving. They don't tell us the full story. As I said, if Matt Cain went to the Astros, he would not have won many games this season. Correct? A pitcher could easily win more games then a better pitcher, because of the team he plays on? If the Giants are averaging 8 runs a game and the Blue Jays are averaging 5, the pitcher on the Giants is much more likely to win.
Matt Cain, Madison Bumgarnerm Ryan Vogelsong all had better years then Zito. In every single important stiatistic. They're better pitchers. It is literally insane to think the Giants would even think for a second of starting Barry Zito over Madison Bumgarner. I am not arguing Lincecum is good at all anymore. he lost a lot of his velocity and was brutal this season.
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Did you watch Bum pitch lately? His arm is dead. He has too many innings this year. It was an easy decision to start Zito tonight. If they get to the WS, Zito starts game 1. Bum will be back, but this year his arm is a wet noodle. I don't enjoy it. Included in my 15 Giants jerseys is a Bumgarner 2010 WS one. I have no Zito stuff. That doesn't cloud my decision that I'd start Zito over him every single day the rest of the year.
Tim's velocity has gone down during the last few seasons. he game up throwing 98 and then learned to pitch with lower level stuff during his Cy Young years. His fastball is near where it was in 2010 when he dominated the postseason, but he's had to pitch from the stretch more often as his mechanics are shot.
I understand pitchers on better hitting teams have a better shot at winning. I'm not arguing that. I am arguing that you need to be a good pitcher to get on those teams for long period of time, and thus they don't just hand those jobs to scrubs, unless you are the Yankees the last few years
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The Giants won this year because Posey put that team on his back and Scutaro helped out huge. The Cabrera issue could have killed them and it didn't. They were a lot better in the second half, and it helped that their pitching was better, Zito included. Bum is a better pitcher, just not right now.