Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community - View Single Post - US Ambassador to Lybia, along with 3 others, killed

Calgary4LIfe · 09-13-2012, 09:56 AM

There is never an excuse for violence. People need to grow thicker skins.

However...

People need to be more respectful of one another in this world. It isn't just religion. It is about everything. Why does Islam apparently 'hate' the west? Anyone here actually follow history?

Look at the terrible 'evil' country in the world - Iran. Look up the history of what happened there. Look at what BP's role was in ousting a DEMOCRATICALLY elected and responsible government so that England can continue to 'rape' that country for its' oil.

The western world has often removed democratic governments and replaced them with dictators - South America, Asia, Africa and even in Europe. This is no big 'secret' - and if this is news to you, you really need to start reading a bit more.

In the middle east, the favored type of 'regimes' were Islamic regimes. Did the people support them? Sure, some did, but in most cases they were BRUTAL and OPPRESSIVE governments that only the people in power wanted. The USA preferred these regimes to be in place over democratically elected governments why? To ensure a cheap and steady supply of oil, and to support their anti-communist (which had nothing to do with communism at all - the US cold war was really about the sphere of influence and power in the world one nation to another, not any political system rhetoric) ideals that the west was striving for.

Who really suffered in the cold war? Everyone else in the world took the brunt of it.

Why were people celebrating in the streets (yes, they were indeed celebrating in certain parts of the middle east) when 9/11 happened? For years, they started seeing how the west was oppressive and untouchable. They were seen as an 'enemy' - and quite frankly, has the western world been much other than an enemy?

Religion is much more complicated than just "why do these idiots fight over which fairy-tale is right'? Seriously, are you guys kidding me? You don't see how this is offensive to ANYONE who is religious? You are only kidding yourselves if you feel you are more 'enlightened' by saying stupid rubbish like this. How hypocritical are some people?

It is fine not to believe in religions. It is fine to to discuss them, and express your views. What is not fine is to disrespect people's values. That is what happened here with this movie (and what a few posters seem to like to do - here and in the goth-guy thread).

For a point of reference, I am a non-practicing Roman Catholic. I don't go to church, I don't pray, and usually I don't even think about God. I sometimes swing from being that, to an atheist even. What I don't think is 'ok' is for me to tell someone there religion is WRONG - I remember some Jehovah witnesses going from door to door doing exactly that. My mom made the mistake of opening the door, not knowing who they were. She was a deeply religious Roman Catholic, and these women told her: "You and your children will go to hell because you are in the wrong religion" (I am not kidding - these were the actual words that lady told us).

Religious intolerance is.. not to be tolerated. However, you don't gain that tolerance by 'attacking' them like this. All it does is increase religious fervor and makes people feel they are threatened. It puts into power charismatic leaders who push their own agendas, not the agendas of what the religion is supposed to do.

This isn't as simple as "there was an insulting movie, but the Muslims are taking it too far". They attacked the embassies because they are outraged over being 'attacked' in this manner, and how the US government would allow this 'attack' to take place on them (which is still wrong, but that is why that happened).

This movie was meant to incite. Mission accomplished. It is sad that the violence happened, but it was definitely the intended purpose of this 'movie'.

This wasn't a 'critical' movie - just watch some of it. It wasn't meant to be critical of Islam. The ability to be critical is what is intrinsic to freedom of speech. Freedom of speech in this case, however, only served to allow and protect someone from inciting outrage on 1/5th of the world. There is a difference. The people who ended up on the street VIOLENTLY demonstrating (rioting) were as much in the wrong. The victims were the people who died, and everyone else in the world as well, regardless of your beliefs.

As for why the people in Palestine were 'celebrating' the events on 9/11 - the answer doesn't begin and end with Islam. It begins and ends with politics that have been going on in the middle east for 50 years.

09-13-2012, 09:56 AM	#138
Calgary4LIfe Franchise Player Join Date: Jun 2010 Exp:	There is never an excuse for violence. People need to grow thicker skins. However... People need to be more respectful of one another in this world. It isn't just religion. It is about everything. Why does Islam apparently 'hate' the west? Anyone here actually follow history? Look at the terrible 'evil' country in the world - Iran. Look up the history of what happened there. Look at what BP's role was in ousting a DEMOCRATICALLY elected and responsible government so that England can continue to 'rape' that country for its' oil. The western world has often removed democratic governments and replaced them with dictators - South America, Asia, Africa and even in Europe. This is no big 'secret' - and if this is news to you, you really need to start reading a bit more. In the middle east, the favored type of 'regimes' were Islamic regimes. Did the people support them? Sure, some did, but in most cases they were BRUTAL and OPPRESSIVE governments that only the people in power wanted. The USA preferred these regimes to be in place over democratically elected governments why? To ensure a cheap and steady supply of oil, and to support their anti-communist (which had nothing to do with communism at all - the US cold war was really about the sphere of influence and power in the world one nation to another, not any political system rhetoric) ideals that the west was striving for. Who really suffered in the cold war? Everyone else in the world took the brunt of it. Why were people celebrating in the streets (yes, they were indeed celebrating in certain parts of the middle east) when 9/11 happened? For years, they started seeing how the west was oppressive and untouchable. They were seen as an 'enemy' - and quite frankly, has the western world been much other than an enemy? Religion is much more complicated than just "why do these idiots fight over which fairy-tale is right'? Seriously, are you guys kidding me? You don't see how this is offensive to ANYONE who is religious? You are only kidding yourselves if you feel you are more 'enlightened' by saying stupid rubbish like this. How hypocritical are some people? It is fine not to believe in religions. It is fine to to discuss them, and express your views. What is not fine is to disrespect people's values. That is what happened here with this movie (and what a few posters seem to like to do - here and in the goth-guy thread). For a point of reference, I am a non-practicing Roman Catholic. I don't go to church, I don't pray, and usually I don't even think about God. I sometimes swing from being that, to an atheist even. What I don't think is 'ok' is for me to tell someone there religion is WRONG - I remember some Jehovah witnesses going from door to door doing exactly that. My mom made the mistake of opening the door, not knowing who they were. She was a deeply religious Roman Catholic, and these women told her: "You and your children will go to hell because you are in the wrong religion" (I am not kidding - these were the actual words that lady told us). Religious intolerance is.. not to be tolerated. However, you don't gain that tolerance by 'attacking' them like this. All it does is increase religious fervor and makes people feel they are threatened. It puts into power charismatic leaders who push their own agendas, not the agendas of what the religion is supposed to do. This isn't as simple as "there was an insulting movie, but the Muslims are taking it too far". They attacked the embassies because they are outraged over being 'attacked' in this manner, and how the US government would allow this 'attack' to take place on them (which is still wrong, but that is why that happened). This movie was meant to incite. Mission accomplished. It is sad that the violence happened, but it was definitely the intended purpose of this 'movie'. This wasn't a 'critical' movie - just watch some of it. It wasn't meant to be critical of Islam. The ability to be critical is what is intrinsic to freedom of speech. Freedom of speech in this case, however, only served to allow and protect someone from inciting outrage on 1/5th of the world. There is a difference. The people who ended up on the street VIOLENTLY demonstrating (rioting) were as much in the wrong. The victims were the people who died, and everyone else in the world as well, regardless of your beliefs. As for why the people in Palestine were 'celebrating' the events on 9/11 - the answer doesn't begin and end with Islam. It begins and ends with politics that have been going on in the middle east for 50 years.