Quote:
Originally Posted by Thor
There are also plenty that don't bite their tongues, not sure what your point is here. Like anyone with any ideology, some keep quiet, some don't..
Its been and still remains in most places in the world considered impolite, risky, sometimes dangerous to criticize religion, how do you find the opposite that its impolite to discuss religion?
Iceland is not the least religious, but certainly its no Saudi Arabia. I am not speaking out on behalf of my local issues here, I do that locally since I am a member of our humanist group and we have been fighting tooth and nail to stop christian pastors coming to our elementary public schools talking about Jesus and even giving out biblical children's books.
Since you seem to think locally, lets put this in perspective. With social media and the internet, for those of us who are active in this debate, I see daily via Facebook and news the onslaught of bad ideas coming under the guise of religious beliefs. Rewriting history books in Texas, changing laws to infuse Intelligent design into biology classes, 100's of state and local amendments to limit and make abortions harder... This is a tiny part of what I see and read weekly, then theres the stuff that really makes me sad, people in 3rd world nations being jailed, imprisoned and killed just for not being religious..
Oh great that old standby by religious apologists, "atheists are so angry." 
I have stated countless times throughout the years my issue is not with religious belief itself, although I love to debate it with those who want to; but with ideas, policies and attitudes propagated BY religious ideology. Gay marriage, anti abortion, anti-science, etc.. The list is long. |
OK, so the term "world" was a misspeak. I should have been clearer. I meant the western world. Specifically locally. In the American South, I could see your statement about religion being "thrown in your face" being far more real, however when you compare that with the rest of the western world, it is a minority. Not a majority. Most of the rest of the western world is religious, but not vocally so. Especially where you are from.
In the Canadian and European experience of people of faith, it is not common any longer for people to have a faith of any kind thrown in their face. Not even close. In fact my experience living in both places was that if my faith was mentioned, then I was looked at differently. With some distaste. It is not a pleasant thing.
My point was, you claim you are doing the things you do with your "humanist" group because you are sick of having religion "thrown in your face". That may be the case in some parts of the world, but it isn't happening here. Or where you are. Your efforts would likely be better served if they were focused on those places.
So while I applaud any attempts to get poorly written laws thrown out, to get evolution taught in schools (which I steadfastly agree with), I disagree with your claim that it is due to the fact that religion, and religious people are very aggressive. That was all I was questioning.
It seems to me that your anger is misplaced. I am angry about a number of the very same things you are. That list of the things you wrote that are wrong with the world, I also sincerely dislike. But I dislike it for a very different reason from why you do. Those policies are not specifically religious ones, they are political. I am disgusted with how, especially in America, politics has usurped Christianity and claimed it for it's own. The policies you describe are intended to divide people who believe in God from the political left. They are called "hot button issues" because they are the buttons that the political right pushes to keep people who believe in God from following a policy other than the ones used by the republican right, because to do so would be considered "unchristian". In essence, what we have currently is the situation that the Founding Fathers were most worried about when they put in place the doctrine of the separation of Church and State: a State that uses the Church to control it's people for political gain, and not because it is what is right. I disagree with you not because I disagree with your problem points per se, but because I don't agree with you about where those issues come from.
As for the Third World, you'll find that it tends to be a place filled with intolerance, regardless of if you are atheist or not. I doubt you can make a claim that atheists are singled out more than any other group.
What I meant when I said that religion is not thrown in your face was meant in a personal sense. When was the last time you heard what kind of religion your fellow co-workers believe? Or schoolmates? It's not common any longer for someone's beliefs to be front and center. It's taboo, in the same sense that politics is. I understand now better where you are coming from, but most places in the western world the situations you are describing are not common. At least they do not appear so to me.
As for the comment about "angry atheists", I was specifically referring to you, not to atheists as a whole
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This post kind of wandered a bit, but I hope it is clear enough.