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Originally Posted by Cheese
"What is freedom of expression? Without the freedom to offend, it ceases to exist."
- Salman Rushdie
Thats your signature Fly. Unfortunately Mr Rushdie has found the Muslims dont like what he has to say either.
Adolf was a Catholic by the way.
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Just the crazy ones who believe in that fatwa calling for his death. It's an interesting thing what Osama has done to globalise militant Islamism. Used to be centuries ago in the Caliphate that only a very few Caliphs that were versed and respected could issue a fatwa. Now that Osama is issuing fatwas and militant clerics and terrorists all over the world seem to be sending them out all the time is contributing to all this. It brings free-speech to the common Muslim and it's sort of the like the whole protestant thing of religion becoing a personal matter...and so everybody takes it into their own hands...if they happen to have a gun in that hand they use it too.
And yeah, sorry endlosung der judenfrage, final solution to the jewish question... sorry my German totally sucks and I don't have the little dots on my keyboard. There are plenty of papers on the subject of Nazi athesism, and as for the views of those that initiated the actual final solution, go read the minutes of the Wannsee Conference.
And its part of my whole argument is that you shouldn't lump all religious people into the same group. So Hitler was a catholic by name (obviously not in personal belief or action)...does that mean that all catholics are Hitler? Of course not? Just because some religious people are total fanatics or Stockwell Day, it doesn't mean that all of them are or feel the same way.
That's the problem with the media, all you see are the burning embassies and gun-toting terrorists, when the world is full of moderate muslims that absolutely hate the violence that's going on and argue that those militant protestors are the ones who are neglecting the true meaning of their religion. I'm sure there's plenty of "turn the other cheek" stuff in the Koran. Instead they go by religious custom and protocol (that's not even in the Koran) that says that you should make images of anything lest you have idolatry. By that logic, any picture of a person, statue, or even photograph should be destroyed.
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My main issue is NOT about religions starting wars...although they certainly have and continue to do so....in the name of politics.
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I just think you have things backwards. Wars are started politically - but often in the name of religion.
The Crusades? There was a problem with an entire class of society that were warriors/mercenaries with nothing to do but fight wars in Europe. Popes wanted to consolidate their power and fill their coffers. Islam was growing and increasingly encroaching politically and militarily upon "Christian" territory. Solution to all of those problems? Start a few Crusades and tell the troops that in return for fighting, all your sins are forgotten since you are the Pope and by Palpal Infallibility, everything you say is true.
Did Napolean conquer Europe because he wanted everbody to be Catholic? No, he wanted to be friggin' Emperor of the world, under the guise of being primus inter pares.
Did the Spanish Conquistadors come to convert the South American masses because of religion? No they slaughtered them all because they wanted Inca gold. Their excuse? They were all pagans and going to hell anyway.
Did the British invade and occupy much of the known world because they wanted to convert everybody to the Anglican Church? No, they wanted Empire and trading routes and colonies but pretty much let everybody practice whatever religion they wanted but had no second thoughts about wiping out many indiginous inhabitants as they were doing it.
Did millions and millions of people die under Nazi, atheist Soviet, Chinese (and other east asian) communist regimes because of religious reasons? No, it was political and economic.
I think you believe religion is the root of human evil because you are fortunate enough to live in a free society where all the other explicit political and economic evils that were really just horrific throughout human history have been suppressed enough that religion stands out as being oppressive and dangerous in our liberal society. If religion was gone, do you think human nature would be less violent? I highly doubt it. Muslim frustration stems from centuries of political and economic humilation in their eyes when Western Countries support nuclear Isreal and occupy their countries with military forces and apply double standards and oppressive sanctions against them...and make them perform scenes from brokeback mountain in their own jails.
The mohammed comics was just the straw that broke their backs (again). Even if none of them were muslims, there'd be something else that would cause people to riot and kill each other. Look at the riots in France, it was just primarily poverty and alienation of that whole immigrant class that incited all the violence.
I think secular society and has way more knocks against it than religion does in human history.
And using a dictionary to prove a point is not cool
There's no context.
I think it'sclear that in this context, if you are offended, it's your displeasure at something happened external to you and being insulted is having a direct and personal attack on you.