View Single Post
Old 12-16-2011, 07:37 PM   #93
Slava
Franchise Player
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thor View Post
Well I'd argue its utterly the wrong word, but lets move past that.



Ok fine, but when you have 90% of people speaking one way, and the minority speaks up and you call them out for being offensive, maybe its time to evaluate how just that claim is.

Interesting you use the word holier than thou. Lets for example as a Muslim, why his God is the true God and all other Gods are false. This Muslim will call Christians as infidels, with all the fibre in his being he is CERTAIN you are all going to burn in hellfire because Mohammed the prophet was contacted in a cave.

How can you argue with that??!

So whats more arrogant.

My God is the one true God and I know his mind and what he wants.

or...

I don't know, there is no evidence for Gods of any kind, there are natural explanations for everything we see around us and questions we do not yet know are going to be vigorously attacked by our curiosity.

Yes, your right, the non believer is the arrogant one.




You mean you don't like it when they pick apart your religion. Or are you equally offended by people challenging the beliefs of Scientology, Mormonism, Hinduism, etc..????

So religion in your opinion should be exempt from these attacks by people using logical arguments against the claims and ideals of religion of which is tries to perpetrate and push upon ALL people of this world no matter where they live?



Actually statistics repeatedly show in the last 100 years that the least immoral and criminal group is non believers. The fact is the Catholic church has existed as an abomination to what Jesus the person would have seen as the opposite of his teachings. Any basic reading of history shows you why the Holy Roman Church formed and why it continued, because it was a form of power and control that didn't require a large army to propagate.

Sorry but the misconduct of a few?? The entire world has shown Catholic churches, schools, etc.. as BASTIONS of abuse and misconduct. How you can even begin to suggest non organized, non believing people could even ATTEMPT to reach that level of abuse, harm and systematic horror is beyond me. The Catholic church has 2000yrs behind it, modern atheism has what 10 years, when people feel free to speak their mind???



It does matter greatly. If I say its wrong to murder because God says so in the 10 commandments, and an atheist says its wrong to murder because its bad for our society, those two have massive differences.

One suggests we can only know morality from God, and one suggest we know morality from interactions in our society, that evolve and change with knowledge, experiences and most importantly from what succeeds and what does not.

Claims of absolute morality, rigid claims of gays are born in sin, muslims are heathens which will burn in eternity, babies who die before baptism will burn in hell, etc... These are not logical issues, these are faith based bronze age beliefs intruding into our modern society.

IF you think we're militant for speaking against all this, well then I'm truly sad for you. Debating a counter point isn't militarism, its just what you'd hope for in a modern society.

Maybe if everyone just agreed and those who didn't shut up you'd be happy, because seemingly that is what you and so many want.

Just speaking out makes us militant, me thinks you need to search out the dictionary, I'd suggest militant is flying planes into buildings, not posing tough questions on a Calgary Puck message forum that isn't nice.

Just a thought
Well there is no question that the religious zealots are frustrating as well, and I wouldn't imply anything else. Thats kind of my point though. I don't like it when any religion claims to be the one true path or be the only just religion; but for the exact same reason I don't like the hardline atheist implying that they are trying to educate the masses about the non-existence of god.

I hope you don't get the idea that I think debate is wrong. I spent countless hours in university debating these topics and god only knows (or doesn't depending on your viewpoint) how many hours I've spent arguing positions on CP! I think that by debating and arguing people learn way more than if we all just blindly agree actually. I also don't take it personally though; I've had some pretty heated debates on politics here and its a non-issue for me in the sense that I could sit down and have a beer with these guys tonight and not care! I know that not everyone thinks that though and religion is a pretty touchy issue.

I really don't think I can defend the catholic church as an institution. I'm not catholic, and you've probably done way more research about their scandals than I'll ever do! I don't agree with all that they espouse and certainly not all that they sanction. But whats the harm if a person wants to attend catholic mass? It has almost no effect on you personally.

As for the over the top "you're my enemy" talk from Hitchens thats not something we need more of when discussing religion. If he believes that religion has caused all of the worlds trials and tribulations then surely he recognizes its that exact attitude that brings about these conflicts.
Slava is offline   Reply With Quote