[Calgaryborn]

Originally Posted by Yasa

Fair enough on the history of Soviet and Chinese treatment towards religion. While I was brisk and inherently wrong with my statement, my point was more with the sentence that followed it. It doesn't matter who started it. Persecuting an entire group of people because they persecuted your ancestors is a terrible excuse to perpetuate violence and inhumane treatment. It's a school yard mentality.

I don't hold you responsible for any atrocities done in the name of your religion, nor would I treat you as such. I would treat you based on your current actions and who you are as a person; religious beliefs aside. That's how I operate. If you decide to physically attack me, I'll be pissed off at you and not Christianity.

I don't think anyone is attacking atheists. They were just responded to a survey. Christians weren't shaking a fist at atheists-they were just answering a question.

Originally Posted by Yasa

To clarify what you're saying; if you were attacked multiple times by a black person, you would begin to dislike all black people as you would associate it with a pattern of negative experiences? Crime, and general jack-assery is not a product of race. It's a product of culture and surroundings.

What I'm saying is if I lived in a community where a high percentage of say muggings were committed by black men I would worry about being found in a vulnerable position amonst black men. Sure those black men might mean me no harm but, based on experience I would distrust them. I can rationalize on one hand that even in this community most black males are law abiding but, that doesn't changes my feelings based on experiences. So what do I do? Probably avoid the group of black males. Most folks would do the same even though we know that there might not be any danger.

Originally Posted by Yasa

Atheists (just like everybody) come from all walks of life. If you've had multiple negative experiences with atheists acting like dicks, that's most likely because they were raised to be dicks. They could subscribe to any religion or non-religion and still have the same attitude.

I would bet that you have come across several atheists in your life that you wouldn't have ever known were atheists, but since they were kind and respectful, you never really thought anything of it.

Just the same, you comparing the actions of a handful (say 50-100?) atheists to the entire population is unjust. The WBC was just one example. Having lived in the Bible-Belt, I've experienced obnoxious actions and treatment from multiple people that claim to be Christian. I still don't judge the entire population. It's your individual actions that define how I treat you, not your belief in a diety.

I just don't think one should totally disregard experience. It is how we normally learn. If I run into some great atheists and my experiences are positive then I change my opinion. It's not like all those people who responded to the survey would never befriend an atheist or wish them harm. They at best would not go out of their way to seek friendship with an atheist. But, if offered they would probably give them the benefit of a doubt.

I had a friend who was/is agnostic. He worked the oil rigs in the southern states some years ago. He told me that almost everybody where he was was baptist and if you wanted to get a job or get ahead you better be baptist because they favioured their own. I didn't discount his experience. There is no doubt some truth to it. Is it always true? Of course not. Is it generally true? Well I would guess that depends on where you are and who you run into.

Originally Posted by Yasa

Ok. I brought up 9/11 in response to the idea that atheism is more dangerous than religious belief. Although, if a foreign power invaded your country and killed family or friends, I'm sure you would do what you could to have them leave. Not necessarily in the name of your religion. I'm not justifying their actions, but I digress.

Do you have any sort of stats to this, or is it just a wild guess you pulled out of the air? Do you treat all followers of Islam as terrorist enemies because of the recent actions?

No I don't have any data. It wasn't just pulled out of thin air either. I know these religious conflicts are wide spread because of the news reports I read and see. I also hear and recieve reports from missionaries from pretty remote areas of the world. It is suprising how many little countries have unsafe areas because of Muslim or communist rebels. You don't hear about it until it gets to be a big conflict where the Rebels are at risk of taking over but, they are out there. African and Asia have far more little wars going on then one would think. America has in the past put out a long list of countries with Al Qaeda links. I'm not sure of how well they are truly linked but, they probably do show at least what are religious hot spots.

The amount of supporters must represent millions based on the demonstrations we've seen in Muslim countries and statements by their religious leaders. I was going to post a link to a news report on a rall.y that took place in Cairo Egypt the other day. At it they called for the destruction of all Jews as is called for in the Koran. Having read parts of the Koran in an english translation and trying to take it in the context of the passages involved I don't doubt any fundamentalist Muslim would agree with the speaker at that rally. That is a huge problem because there will always be fundamentalist/literalists within their faith.

http://midnightwatcher.wordpress.com...kill-all-jews/

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/stun...l-qaeda-flags/

Originally Posted by Yasa

This is exactly what I'm talking about. Your experiences with atheists are negative because of lawsuits and intolerance of your beliefs. You judge an entire group of people negatively as a result. Non-violent actions, to that. Blanketing all atheists based off that is no different than atheists describing all Catholics or Christians as pedophiles as a result of the priest abuses. Do you know for a fact that everyone volunteering for soup kitchens, homeless shelters, Red Cross foreign aid, etc. or donating to charitable organizations are infact Christians? How do you know some are not atheists? Simply put, you don't. You assume, because you assume all atheists are selfish people. I apologize if I'm putting words into your mouth, but this is how you come across.

My experience being negative doesn't mean I or those who took the survey think there are no nice atheists. It justs means that if I meet one I'd probably would expect a negative experience while hopeing for a good one. Having a general opinion about the behaviour of a group of people doesn't mean you can't see them as individuals who should be judged on their own merits.

Originally Posted by Yasa

In the same breath, you speak about re-framing American history, an action that many Christians participate in as well. As far as I'm concerned, things such as "In God We Trust" on the money and "One Nation Under God" in the pledge of allegiance are products of the 50's that should be removed.

Fair enough.

Originally Posted by Yasa

Ass holes always speak the loudest for any group. The WBC speaks loudly, despite being a substantially small population and yet people will base their opinions of you because of them. Islamic fundamentalists made the negative name for Muslims around the world. The police are put in a bad light when brutality makes the news. So on and so forth. The loudest and rudest person will uninentionally be the spokesperson for their subscriped opinion. I hate that it's like that, but that's just how it is. Not taking it upon yourself to break free from preconceived notions is on you, and by not doing so you're just fueling the fire for these people.

I know the worse in people are always the most seen. It is what our news agencies look for because it is apparently what we want to see. But, we are talking about a survey here. How can they answer without lumping the whole group together. In actual fact that is what the survey asks them to do. It doesn't mean that they don't give people a chance because they belong to a particular group.

Originally Posted by Yasa

It absolutely does mean they're equal in that sense. If 10 is a rapist, then an atheist (as horrible as we are) should be nowhere near 10. I am not physically or mentally harming anybody with my beliefs. I am not raping anybody! If an atheist ranks 10 on that scale, then a rapist should be a hell of a lot higher. That's a very ridiculous thing to say.

Again this is just a survey. Perhaps they were just a quarter of the way into the survey when they encountered "atheist" and responded with the highest negative rating because the only atheists they know have not been great people. Then later in the survey they were asked about "rapists" and responded with the worse possible rating. The survey asked for feelings of different groups of people and our feelings are almost totally based on experience. It doesn't mean Christians can't rationalize what they are feeling and see there could be a bigger picture.