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Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame
This is the whole crux of the debate. I think they know what they're trying to argue, but they are having extreme difficulty articulating it or forming it into a coherent, effective message.
They may not have had a discussion because they don't know how to even begin with it. But I would say that for the most part, these people are arguing about economic difficulties and pointing fingers at those who own the wealth and make the corporate/political decisions. I think that much is pretty obvious if you look at what's being "protested" in New York, Calgary, wherever.
Cap, I can tell you're educated an passionate about the issue, and perhaps that's why you have a good grasp of the whole thing. Many people, protesters and non-protesters, don't have as good of an understanding, for whatever reason that might be.
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And I guess thats why drives me a little crazy. to me this protest is equivalent to the members of the Westboro Baptist church holding up signs that say "we're here, we're queer, deal with it"
To me the occupy movement in Calgary and in Canada has done a tremendous job of turning the majority of the 99% against them, a prime example would be the online poll where 99% wanted to deny them electricity.
Protests should inspire change and I'm going to get to that in a second. And to inspire change you have to have clear focus, be somewhat sympathetic and be able to discuss the problem and propose a solution.
while the Occupiers like to compare themselves to the Arab Spring, they're not relevant in that way. The Arab Spring protests arose from an entire community rising up against a brutal system of oppression and forcing change through clear focus and ideology, and they were willing to sacrifice tremendously.
The Peace Movement was successful because an entire generation rose up on a key issue, and they all had a consistant ability to discuss and push for change.
Look at the woman's protests for the vote and for sufferage.
Or the protests against child labor that pretty much kicked off the industrial revolution.
The occupy Canada movement is really protesting against what's happening in the United States, the situation in this country is different.
The Occupy Canada movement basically has torn their stances out of ridiculous big books of buzz words and because of that to me they sound like the celebrities in Team America World Police
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Tim Robbins: Let me explain to you how this works: you see, the corporations finance Team America, and then Team America goes out... and the corporations sit there in their... in their corporation buildings, and... and, and see, they're all corporation-y... and they make money.
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They not only cannot articulate their stance, but they don't understand their stance so in effect it comes across as a combination of elitist youth activists who make outrageous demands without understanding the ramifications of demands on the people that they're suppossed to be arguing for, and another fringe group that decided to join in because it gave convienient execuses to their failures in life "I have a degree in advanced jazz contemporary dancing and nobody will pay me a $100,00 a year, I am the 99%.", or "I ran up my credit card bills to the point that I can't pay them back, and I'm paying huge interest rates, I am the 99%"
While they talk about being a leadership less group, thats a lame excuse, you need to have a concensus list of thoughtful demands, and you need focus to those demands. There's the old saying that "You can only change the world one step at a time"
They leave themselves vulnerable by allowing the crackpot element to not only hijack the movement, but become the face of the movement, and believe me, the occupy movement up here have driven off the original members that could have bought them that focus based ideaology.
They've become a un-sympathetic group, pretty un-heroic with their demands for free electricity, nearly submarining the homeless deal, and making the suggestion that it was ok to go raid homeless sheltersfor warm clothing. And they've lost touch with their core group or supporters inthe 99%. the dirty stinking hippies in the 60's and 70's never ever did that.
That is why Occupy Calgary/Canada is a damaging entity.