Quote:
Originally Posted by zamler
I'm a firm believer in the finite resources rule. VW spends a disproportionate amount on driving dynamics, gadgets etc. and puts long term reliability and dependability way down on the list. If you've ever worked on a Volkswagen, you see right away that they use the "just enough" mentality for the major components. Things are generally not over built by any stretch, which is fine when the car is new, but as things start to age and stress, reliability takes a downturn.
Compare a 12 year old VW to a 12 year old Toyota for example, just about everything on the Toyota is overbuilt, heavier duty, larger, more robust (this has changed somewhat recently). Sure this adds weight, expense, can be a detriment to the driving dynamics, and leaves less left over for the bells. It's a difference in philosophy, which is why it is quite rare to find a car that is dead reliable, fun to drive, lightweight, safe, well optioned etc.
BTW, VW has consistently been at the bottom rung of reliability for all auto makers, and spends a great deal more on warranty repairs vs. the most reliable brands. I personally love a couple of Audi's I think they are stellar in many ways, but I'm not sure I want to deal with the hassles, warranty or not. A friend of mine has an Audi A6, it's easy to be jealous of the car it is quite stunning, but the number of times it has been in for warranty is downright silly.
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Normally I try and stay neutral in these threads, but your opinion is so incredibly misinformed, my head almost exploded.
Compare a 12 year old VW to a 12 year old Toyota for example.
Tough to do, as more Toyota will be retired, or have major corrosion issues. VW's for the last 15 years have been built from virgin steel, and steel 40% thicker than a Toyota. Every VW has a 12 year unlimited distance corrosion guarantee. Toyota is 5 years, and they employee the use of recycled metals in their body panels.
I would point out my 2 door GTI hatchback weighs only 160 pounds less than a Toyota Camry full size sedan as a result of that fact.
If you've ever worked on a Volkswagen, you see right away that they use the "just enough" mentality for the major components.
I suggest you open the hood side by side on a VW and Toyota before you make that comparison. When I sold cars, I would place a Toyota next to the VW and do exactly that. And point out the uninsulated battery, lack of looming on wiring (usually elecrical tape), lack of adequate covers on the engine. And the flimsiness of hardware and hinges. Open the door on your Toyota and hang off the end of it with all your weight, I dare you, you will bend the door and be at a body shop on Monday. I weigh 220 lbs, and will do that to my personal vehicle if you want, come on by. We used forged hinges on every door, Toyota stamped steel.
Sure this adds weight, expense, can be a detriment to the driving dynamics, and leaves less left over for the bells.
LOL, driving dynamics and Toyota? They ended with the Supra, MR2 and Celica. Toyota's typically come in
under weight, and still underperform with their weight advantage. The are usually last in any performance comparison they are put in. You need to do some homework there. The last trackl event we had when the Tiguan was launched, the only cars that couldn't finish the day were Rav4'S. All three of their power steer pumps would fail mid lap because they could not handle the load of an
autocross course. They were the laughing stock of the day. Even the KIA and Hyundai could handle it, but not the Toyota. It wasn't a surprise, because the Camry did the same thing 2 years earlier. They were, like the kid with asthma in gym class that had to sit out eating Carob while everyone else was having fun.
A lot of the reliability things with VW have merit. As a brand we know that. But VW has also stated to its dealers, they will not sacrifice safety options, or fall behind in technology, to build a more reliable car. German cars will always suffer that stigma. They bring all the great new features to the auto world, then the Japanese copy, simplify, and water it down.
The best analogy of Toyota's I ever heard was from one of the top corporate Toyota people in the country.
"Toyota's are for people that hate to drive." They are boring drab appliances for getting you from point A to B. The Maytag of cars. They do the job simply and reliably, but even that is in question now.