Originally Posted by Reaper
No need to act condescending. It makes you come off rather jerkish. But, to answer your question, I'm not even originally from Calgary so it is naturally assumed that I have indeed left Calgary.
I only asked because of your apparent lack of familiarity with simple tolling systems. They are in virtually every major city in the world, and you're treating them as if they are completely unheard of.
Please tell me which of the the entrances to Calgary would you place toll plazas? If it is not all entrances then what is the logical recourse when traffic from out of town diverts from the tolled entrances to those that are untold?
The deerfoot would be the logical starting point as it is the most heavily used entry. You don't need to close off every entry point to have an effective toll system, the majority of people aren't going to trade in using a highway to sneak in on surface streets. Some will, and increased traffic on those roads is an issue, but it's not an incredibly difficult one to deal with. Installing systems that slow traffic and make the use of that route undesirable limits traffic, and stepped up enforcement (particularly initially) of traffic laws limits and public danger issues. Realistically there are very few practical routes by which to enter Calgary and it wouldn't be difficult to place tolling systems on the majority of them (absent the provincial control of deerfoot).
Maybe you have failed to notice but the original suggestion was that out of town workers should be tolled because they work in Calgary yet live out of town.
And they would be, the fact that people who come in to go to the Flames game pay as well doesn't change that.
Discouraging tourism to Calgary doesn't sound like a great idea to me.
Installing toll roads is going to discourage tourism? Man London, NYC, Chicago, Paris, Sydney..... a list of cities that people just simply won't go to due to those darned toll roads. Quite the weak argument.
Sigh, the original suggestion was that out of town workers should be tolled because they work in Calgary yet live out of town. There is more to infrastructure than just roads yet you seem to have only concerned yourself with road usage.
Well it seems like quite the sensical place to start when discussing people who live at point x and work at point y doesn't it? The issue is their transit between the points, transit achieved by roads (unless some use gliders, in which case they get a pass), so a toll on that road achieves the goal does it not?
Please point out where I suggested that toll roads would be set up without using a tolling system. Otherwise, don't put words in my mouth.
"Without a camera checkpoint (photograph of license plate and/or sticker pass) or a tollbooth how is this accomplished?"
That's you. You're basically asking me how I would accomplish a tolling system without implementing a tolling system. The answer to that is I wouldn't. I can't set up toll booths, I can't use camera/sticker passes. I'm left with what? A guy at the side of the road with a bucket asking nicely for donations?
I have implemented no tolling system without telling you what it is. I was simply presenting possible questions associated with some of the systems.
I think a toll just to enter the city would be a terrible idea. Also, you don't have to present absurdities and suggest that those were my intention.
Well then what are these stickers and passes you speak of? How do they work? Why would you need one? You asked me if people would get fined for not having them, but gave me absolutely no means of knowing what they even were.
And I don't see the absurdities. If I use the infrastructure I pay for it, that's the point of a tolling system. Whether or not I stop has no impact. You don't pay to pass through Banff without stopping because the fee isn't for road usage, it's for park usage. If you want to use the aprk you pay. If a toll was put in place for use of the downtown core and you didn't enter the downtown core you wouldn't pay the toll, if the toll was for use of the roadway and you used the roadway you are charged the toll whehter you stop for coffee or not.
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Okay, another reason why it won't happen...
I haven't dreamed up anything regarding toll systems. Perhaps I should avoid debate when I am tired and I could have worded the whole "free country" thing a bit better but the premise is simple. If you essentially tax people for entering a city based upon where they reside then you are restricting the movement of people. It is a smaller scale version of a "head tax" for immigration and those have not been seen as ethical in historical examinations.
Which brings me back to my question of whether you have ever left Calgary. Toll roads exist virtually everywhere, the fact that Calgary doesn't have them is actually pretty surprising for a city of its size. They don't prevent people from entering a city, they prevent people from entering a city quickly and conveniently and they pass the costs for that convenience onto the users. Painitng these as some sort of unethical head tax is preposterous.
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