[SeoulFire]

Originally Posted by SeeBass

You may have missed the part where I agree a tip is not required and bad service should not be rewarded either.

I disagree in that if you want to go back it is required and must be rewarded unless you want worse service or surprises in your food.

If you do not see that a steak and lobster dinner is a more complex dish and requires great skill to prepare then again you have no understanding.

Slightly off topic but steak and lobster can be a quite straightforward dish compared to some pasta dishes. Also, as a customer I do not know how the tips are distributed among various establishments and cannot reward those with the skill and precision. The servers job does not change with the complexity of the dish - they just carry the damn thing out when it is ready.

Do all items at your work require the same amount of precision, skill or effort to produce do higher paid employees work on those issues or do you leave even the most important issues to the lowest wage earners too?

Lowest paid do the grunt work - I see servers as the grunts. While they (servers) are the 'face' of the restaurant the most important issues would be in the food prep so I would hope that the chefs are paid well. People would probably come back for great food with poor service but not for mediocre or poor food with great service (taking trendiness out of the picture).

my point is that many seem to have trouble seeing is that good service comes at a cost either it will be adjusted in a set wage on a menu price and then you pay the higher salary of incompetence servers too or you reward those that do a good job at your free will.

I dispute that it is not a choice without negative repercussions for future visits.

The way I amuse you with justifying the difficulty in serving and you compare other occupations but are those other occupations making min wage?

For a lot of service positions I would say that they are making minimum or near minimum wage.

You seem to be not grasping the concept of job+skill=wage, are these others equal in your statement of comparison? By thinking it is only a requirement to carry a drink/plate shows you have no concept of what it takes to do the job well.

perhaps you missed my reference to details, multi-tasking, troubleshooting etc etc. As far as your horribly patronizing 'job+skill' goes, I already addressed it in your tendency to exaggerate the skill required (while I may be understating it). I do not believe that a server should receive a premium from me because they have other #### to do too.

Complaining to mangement does work. A volume of complaints does change things would it not matter at your work?

My tits don't bring in customers.

and no I am not in the industry I have been out of it for almost 20 years. Your problem is you have no respect for the trade.

Fair enough. I will respect the industry when the people in the industry respect me as a customer and not an ATM.

If service is not good dont tip and complain if you desire but you cant escape the money will be made up elsewhere if there was no tipping.

Once again based on the assumption that servers actually deserve for the money to be made up. On the other hand, I would gladly pay a 20% premium if the increase went to finding good help - at least they would be (fairly) taxed on it.

I think we agree on some points but there are too many variables here. My beefs are with the midground places like the chains and pubs etc. I am also assuming that the servers take the larger share of the tips with a much smaller amount going to the bussers or kitchen. These are the places that I will not go to these days.

Or perhaps I am just a bitter old man after living in a place with much better service - even though tips were not expected or required - because it was their job to give good service. This is despite working for half the hourly in a one of the most expensive cities in the world.