A bit long, coulda been a lot longer... and I may have missed a few points. Take the time to read it, not sure if I'll be able to get to any replies in a timely fashion though. I'm on my way out. I'm not ducking them, I swear, I'll check in when I can. Obviously I did feel it was worth it after all
First, about the elevator incident. Although it may seem obvious, we can't know what the mans intentions were. They could have been completely innocent or noble, if not misguided.
However, even if they were impure I would suggest it's still not that big a crime. Yes, I'm trying to put myself in her shoes and I do see how she could feel uncomfortable, or even scared. But is she trying to put herself in his shoes, or just writing him off as some single minded male creep?
I guess if she truly honestly felt scared, that's one thing. However, if she was just uncomfortable, or grossed out, I guess I'd have to say, that's life. We all have to put up with people and situations we don't like, or feel are fair.
As for putting her in his shoes, lets look at why he acted like this.
1. Guys have to make the first move. If you don't, you get nowhere in life. And that's not just in dating, but in pretty much everything we have to do, from competing for a job, to talking to the ladies. Men are supposed to be naturally aggressive (not in a bad way) and yet many have a hard time acting like this anyway. One has to learn it, and use it, and now, not screw up and offend someone (and I don't mean just feminists) along the way.
2. Plenty of females would not feel threatened by this action. Some even like it. With mixed signals like this, what is a guy supposed to do?
I think the fact that a lot of women would fall in column 2 is why feminism has stalled for a long time. Like any movement, especially civil rights movements, there is an extreme position where it starts to become radical. I've had many women talk to me about this (as I dated a woman much like the one in the video years ago and was looking for perspective) as a reason why they just can't get into the movement anymore. Yes, they want better treatment for women in poor countries, yes they want better pay, but they really disagree with stuff like this. Men and women will always have subtle and important differences.
In fact, many women take it a step further with issues like childbirth and career, citing yes a woman should have an option, but it doesn't entitle her to both. Or at least doing both to the best of her ability. I can't even say to this day just where I fall on the spectrum of this, but it's not just men who fall in this range, there are a LOT of women too.
People don't get it both ways, and this applies to a lot of groups, not just women. People need to make choices and have to expect they are going to be in situations which don't fit with what they are born with, or what they were given with in life.
As an example, I am handicapped. Now, I know there are sports and leagues for people with conditions, though mine is a bit rare. And that is good enough for me, and all the handicapped people I know. But some of the things these radical feminists ask for or expect would be the equivalent of a handicapped person not only demanding their specific condition gets a sport, but that the get paid the same as the non handicapped to do it. It just isn't realistic, and at the end of the day, it isn't fair to ask that either.
Yes we need to try and make sure we make it as equal as possible, and yes we need to make sure anger, malice, disrespect, and taking advantage of situations doesn't enter into equations when we have the upper hand. We need to make sure all people get a chance to feel fulfilled and chance to chase a dream of some kind. But there comes a time when we're all just people, we all have our disadvantages, and complaining about the small things is just silly.
This is why I have believed that this is the time for
gender studies and not just feminism. Because if we are encouraged to put ourselves in her shoes and how society shaped her and why she might react the way she did, we need to put ourselves in his shoes and look at how society (and women for their part) made him act the way he did too.
Further to that there are lots of reasons why gender studies are needed to even things out. Men have a much high rate of suicide, a higher rate of accident, etc. Men are prone to more addictions, and have lots of medical problems women don't. Even just to share viewpoints there are things in a mans world a women could never understand just as there are things in a womans world a man could never understand. As well there are things men have had to overcome that could teach women things just as there are things men could learn (and I have... my best role models have been women) from the things women have had to live with and overcome.
I do believe the video provided to be one side of an argument, and not a point by itself. Other than, maybe the guy wasn't so smart in approaching a feminist in the way he did.
Now, about the Dawkins quote. As burn said, he is obviously being sarcastic and flippant because he feels she needs perspective. And that's a valid point. The fate of women truly in need can be (and I believe is) damaged by extreme viewpoints. Even if her viewpoint is 100% fair, which I'm not sure it is, sometimes you just gotta pick your battles, and not ruin it for others, some of which may truly need it. Especially if your are taking on the responsibility of being a voice for your cause.
That said, I do think Dawkins may have crossed a line. But as I mentioned in my first post, I think both ramped up the rhetoric a little and it's gotten a bit silly.