[blankall]

Originally Posted by TheSutterDynasty

Blankall, the majority of our little debate here is you not understanding the terms. I'll try to clarify for you.

Excuse me? I have a degree in cell biology. I understand the terms.

Originally Posted by TheSutterDynasty

Of course not, but if the physiological mechanism was discovered a hundred years ago and is still accepted today despite major advances in technology, that tells you something about the validity of the mechanism.

Nobody know the mechanism that causes heart disease. It's linked to obesity and more specifically visceral fat, but nobody knows the exact mechanims.

Originally Posted by TheSutterDynasty

Here's where you're mixed up.

Dietary cholesterol is not saturated fat. The names are a little misleading, since dietary cholesterol is actually a lot less of a risk factor for blood cholesterol than saturated and trans fat. It's not very intuitive

I've reread what I wrote. In my first post I said "LDL consumption", when what I meant was "cholesterol consumption". LDL is a lipoprotein and entirely different from either choleseterol or fat. You don't consume it in large quatities in anything.

I howver, at no time use the terms cholesterol and fats interchangebly. My first few paragraphs deal with choleseterol. My last paragraph deals with fatty acids.

Despite the fact I introduced the concept of dietary cholesterol, you also specifically called out this position as wrong. You're now softening your stance with the "lot less of a risk factor" talk.

The truth is that many new scientific studies are showing us that dietary consumption of foods high in saturated fat and cholesterol is not a problem. Trans fats, which are largely found in synthetic foods, are the problem. Ironically enough people have been eating margerine and avoiding butter for decades due to this flawed science.

Originally Posted by TheSutterDynasty

Dietary cholesterol: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dietary...ietary_sources (NOTE: ONLY the section on "dietary sources". There is also a lot on serum lipids/cholesterol. Don't mix them up!)

From that wikipedia article:



If you notice, eggs and nuts actually have very limited saturated fat. Eggs and nuts are very recommended. Why? Because, despite high dietary cholesterol content, both possess very low saturated fat and high mono and/or poly unsaturated fat. Like I mentioned earlier, both mono and poly unsaturated fats are good for your heart health, contrary to the "anti-fat" message that is so prevalent in society today.

I don't think I ever said anything to dispute this. In fact, I encouraged eating certain fats. I discouranged eating trans fats.

In this case it is you who needs to look up the terminolgy. Mono-unsaturated fats are not good for you if they are trans-fats.

From wikipedia:

Trans fat is the common name for unsaturated fat with trans-isomer (E-isomer) fatty acid(s). Because the term refers to the configuration of a double carbon-carbon bond, trans fats may be monounsaturated or polyunsaturated but never saturated.

You clearly have no idea what the terms "saturated" and "trans" mean. You need to take a few courses in organic chemistry and biochemistry before you shoot your mouth off. Trans fats can be mono-unsaturated fats. If the unsaturated carbon bond in the lipid chain is in the trans as opposed to the cis form, the mono-unsaturated fat can be a trans-fat.

Originally Posted by TheSutterDynasty

That's very good that you're able to ask those critical questions of the study. I set aside five minutes to find a couple of studies that were quickly searched for. If you're really that interested, I can certainly set aside a good chunk of time and find some high impact, well-designed studies for you.

If you didn't spend any time looking for these studies, why did you base your argument on them and then demand that I produce similar studies. In fact you called these studies your "gold standard".

Originally Posted by TheSutterDynasty

In other words, some people have increased lipid cholesterol from dietary cholesterol, whereas some do not.

Some peope may have mutations that prevent them from properly metabolising cholesterol. However, the vaaaaaast majority of people do not. Unless you have a very specific condition, dietary choleseterol will not lead to increases in blood cholesterol. If you do have that mutation, your probably goign to die very early anyways. Almost everything has some cholesterol in it. You can delay your death through extreme diets, but it will happen sometime when you are relatively young.

Your also trying to backtrack now and your sending a very mixed message in your argument. You are simultaneously saying that cholesterol is bad for you and that it is not bad for you.

Originally Posted by TheSutterDynasty

Despite the hyper-responses from some, nuts and eggs are still recommended due to the protective effects of mono and poly unsaturated fats, despite being high in dietary cholesterol.

Hopefully that clarifies things.

That really doesnt clarify anything. You stated earlier that trans and saturated fats are the problem and that cholesterol was a "lot less of a risk factor ". Now your use of the word "despite" suggests that cholesterol is also a major problem.

You said it was wrong for stating that dietary cholesterol does not cause heart disease. I, however, was not wrong. Cholesterol levels are controlled by the body. If you eat more, the body prodcues less.

Show me any kind of proof from the last ten years that shows dietary cholesterol increases blood cholesterol in the long run....they don't exist. It's old disproven science. This was the specific statement of mine which you said "takes the cake" for most wrong statement ever.

The jury is still out on saturated fats, but attitudes are changing quickly:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saturat...se_controversy

I'm in the camp that they are not bad for you based on the many studies I have read. The ones that account for the affect of obesity and lifestyle do not show any causal link between saturated fat and cardiovascular disease. The body is capable of metabolising saturated fat and, like cholesterol, a large amount if found naturally in the body. Adding a few drops is not going to change anything. The body will metabolize the excess. If you eat less, the body will compensate by making mroe.

The truth is that its virtually impossible to run a study on saturated fats as the control factors, become the way people live their lives. How do you control your subjects over the course of decades, which is the time scale for the development of heart disease.


To sum up my position:

trans fats and being fat = bad

Choleseterol and non-trans fat = good