[TheSutterDynasty]

Blankall, the majority of our little debate here is you not understanding the terms. I'll try to clarify for you.

Originally Posted by blankall

Here's your problem.

Just because something is old, does not mean it was done right.

Of course not, but if the physiological mechanism was discovered a hundred years ago and is still accepted today despite major advances in technology, that tells you something about the validity of the mechanism.

Originally Posted by blankall

People assumed that dietary cholesterol increased blood cholesterol as the tests they used involved fat people eating burgers and fries.

This is a sweeping statement that has no place in scientific discussion. There are many, many studies using many, many different methods, diets, populations, samples, timelines, etc, etc.

Originally Posted by blankall

When they tried to duplicate the same results with foods that are both healthy (ie low in calories) but high in cholesterol, they could not. Peolpe with diets high in eggs, nuts, and other lean sources of cholesterol simply did not suffer from heart disease. The reason being that the factor in your tests that caused heart disease was obesity.

Here's where you're mixed up.

Dietary cholesterol is not saturated fat. The names are a little misleading, since dietary cholesterol is actually a lot less of a risk factor for blood cholesterol than saturated and trans fat. It's not very intuitive

Dietary cholesterol: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dietary...ietary_sources (NOTE: ONLY the section on "dietary sources". There is also a lot on serum lipids/cholesterol. Don't mix them up!)

From that wikipedia article:

Total fat intake, especially saturated fat and trans fat,[15] plays a larger role in blood cholesterol than intake of cholesterol itself.

If you notice, eggs and nuts actually have very limited saturated fat. Eggs and nuts are very recommended. Why? Because, despite high dietary cholesterol content, both possess very low saturated fat and high mono and/or poly unsaturated fat. Like I mentioned earlier, both mono and poly unsaturated fats are good for your heart health, contrary to the "anti-fat" message that is so prevalent in society today.

Originally Posted by blankall

As for your great scientific study.....IT'S OVER 30 YEARS OLD. The abstract you've linked me to also makes no mention of methods. What kind of diet did your study use? Was the high cholesterol diet burger and fries and the low cholesterol diet celery?

That's very good that you're able to ask those critical questions of the study. I set aside five minutes to find a couple of studies that were quickly searched for. If you're really that interested, I can certainly set aside a good chunk of time and find some high impact, well-designed studies for you.

Originally Posted by blankall

And before you call me out for not beign able to find studies to back up my position, maybe you should do a quick search in your own resource:

http://www.ajcn.org/content/80/4/855...8-c00382dfe4be (this study is from 2004)


Dietary cholesterol causes temporary increases in plasma cholesterol. But overall, these temporary changes are small when compared to the natural level of blood cholesterol and do not contribute to cardiovascular disease.

Ultimately the biggest risk factor for cadiovascular disease is Visceral fat. If your skinny, eat all of the eggs you want.

Hopefully by now you understand the differences between dietary cholesterol, lipid cholesterol, and saturated/unsaturated fats. Based on this, you'll notice that I said:

Originally Posted by me

If I were to take that last part concretely, you would be partially correct in saying that in some individuals actual cholesterol intake (ie cholesterol as in the RDA is 300 mg as in NOT saturated fats) does not affect the serum lipids. This is due to a gene mutation that is not found in many people; most people have a cholesterol-increasing effect from cholesterol intake.

And this is exactly what the article you linked said!!

Subjects were classified as hyporesponders (no increase or ≤0.05 mmol/L increase in plasma cholesterol for 100 mg additional cholesterol) or hyperresponders (≥0.06 mmol/L increase). During the EGG period, the hyperresponders (n = 18) had an elevation in both LDL cholesterol (from 1.54 ± 0.38 to 1.93 ± 0.36 mmol/L) and HDL cholesterol (from 1.23 ± 0.26 to 1.35 ± 0.29 mmol/L) with no changes in LDL:HDL. In contrast, hyporesponders (n = 36) had no significant alterations in plasma LDL or HDL cholesterol.

In other words, some people have increased lipid cholesterol from dietary cholesterol, whereas some do not. Despite the hyper-responses from some, nuts and eggs are still recommended due to the protective effects of mono and poly unsaturated fats, despite being high in dietary cholesterol.

Hopefully that clarifies things.