[photon]

Originally Posted by theonlywhiteout

honest to god photon really?

Yes really. Maybe "the government used to own Telus and Shaw therefore they should give everyone cheap bandwidth" is a valid argument for you, but it isn't for me.

Remember it's not a question of if the pricing is reasonable, it's a question of a) should Telus/Shaw be compelled to provide a specific level of pricing and b) why should they be compelled.

You seem to be saying that they should be compelled because they used to be owned by the government 20 to 30 years ago, that doesn't make any sense to me without more support.

Others say because they form a natural monopoly, and in this area I can be convinced, if it is in fact a monopoly.

Originally Posted by theonlywhiteout

No one is saying that we should be given discounts in perpetuity but, lets first acknowledge the fact that both telus and shaw had sky high pricing before they started competing with each other.
We weren't getting any kind of benefits.

So? No problems here, that's how a free market works. Companies work to benefit themselves, competition works to benefit the consumer by forcing the company to do something better than the other company, better being defined as better for the consumer since it's the consumer that decides which company to go to.

Originally Posted by theonlywhiteout

THEN we wound up in a situation where these 2 giants of phone and cable were so big and so established with all the infrastructure gifted to them

So you say, Telus purchased AGT and ED Tel, and Shaw went public in circumstances I can't find, so you'll have to have more detail here to convince me of "gifted".

Originally Posted by theonlywhiteout

that new companies are impossible to form and compete, thank to the CRTC allowing them to do whatever they want for pricing as a wholesaler.

If it's a natural monopoly then that's the CRTC/government's responsibility, not Shaw's or Telus'.

Originally Posted by theonlywhiteout

Where are these discounts in perpetuity you speak of?

People want more bandwidth for the same price, that's been the common refrain of the thread, Shaw is charging too much and should be forced to provide more for the same price, or the same for less, for the various reasons you've put forward (that they got infrastructure while being a crown corp).

Originally Posted by theonlywhiteout

People want the OPTION of another cable and telephone provider to compete with telus and shaw but that option isn't possible because of a) perhaps the market is too small b) the start up cost is too high c) any other reasons. Because of this we need the CRTC and government to protect Canadians and encourage competition, and discourage anti competitive acts. This is the backbone of a capitalist society... the idea that competition will drive better innovation, pricing, and quality of product. We don't have that.

And that's fine, none of that is Shaw's or Telus' responsibility. As I've already said, I have no problem with governments stepping in to moderate a monopoly/oligopoly, provided that it is in fact such.