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Originally Posted by theonlywhiteout
if thats not rationalizing i dont know what is. look, japan was imperialistic and the americans forced their hand with an oil embargo. the americans damn well knew what they were getting into when they did this. also, japan attacked a millitary base @ pearl. the fact is that they killed no american citizens stateside and probably only a few dozen in the pearl attacks.
either killing civilians thru nuclear bombs is a proportional way to win a war or it isnt.
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And I'm rationalizing. The Japanese had started a brutal war of subjugation, which started in 1937, you can talk about the Oil Embargo starting the war, but the Oil Embargo was caused by Japan deciding to seize territory and fighting a brutal war against people that were considered to be America's Allies. The Embargo wasn't put in place until 1941, long after events like the rape of nanking as an example, and after Japan started their own Island hoping campaign that threatened to swallow the Pacific.
I don't give a crap about the lack of civilian casualties at pearl harbor, the fact that it was a undeclared attack was enough justification for the American actions in the Pacific. Those assets at Pearl Harbor were American assets, those sailors, airmen and others who were killed by the Japanese were still American Citizens.
My sympathies for Imperial Japan are next to none, they decided that they wanted to tear off a piece of the World, their conduct was brutal and sub human, they decided that they wanted to fight to the bitter end, and thats what they got. Do I feel bad about the civilian casualties in Hiroshima and Nagasaki? Absolutely, however you can put a large chunk of the blame on the Japanese Military and government, and their emperor.
The Japanese were beaten, Truman issued them an or else ultimatum, unconditional surrender or consequences. The Japanese refused, they dropped the first bomb, The Japanese refused another ultimatum hours before the second bomb, and only after that one did the Emperor tell the Military leaders to sue for peace.
Again we can talk about negotiated peace, but the conditions of peace were that the Japanese government had to be gutted and their military neutralized and the Islands occupied, the Allies were going to accept no other conditions, the concept of Imperial Japan had to die.
If the Japanese had decided not to exercise their imperial ambitions there would have been no need for an oil embargo in 1941.