[Rathji]

Originally Posted by puckluck

Are you kidding me? Did you not read the very next sentence where I said the opposite of what you accused me of?

I think you are misunderstanding what I said. I am not accusing you of anything. I read your whole post and am simply saying that your 2 opinions:

1) People commit crime because they are poor
and
2) People should receive stricter sentences when they commit a crime

sort of contradict each other because the solution your are suggesting to reduce crime in #2 doesn't work very well, if at all, on people in #1.

Let me say it another way:

Originally Posted by puckluck

American high crime rate and the justice system really dont have any correlation. IMO there is high crime because it's pretty much a third world country in a lot of areas. The Mexicans sure don't help either. Poor Black areas sure don't help as well.

You are saying that crime is high because of low income levels. I pointed out that the type of crime that exists become of poverty is typically not affected by deterrent based justice system (one that has harsher penalties). People who commit crimes because they do not have the ability to survive or who feel that there is no other option do not ususally consider the consequences, because simply, they have no other real choice.

Why would anyone think that the crime rate would go down because of more lenient laws? Because I sure don't. I just want to see Canadian criminals actually serve real time for their crimes.

The reality is, that reoffending rates have gone down in Canada since the shift from a punishment based system (in the 70s) to a more treatment or community based system. For example: this is especially true of young offenders. The transitions from the JDA to the YOA to our current YCJA have all increased the levels of 'treatment' and other community based programs for young people and removed a lot of barriers that existed for them to return to a normal life. There are many other examples, including aboriginal based justice systems were this has shown to prove true.

It doesn't mean it is the only option, but the option of increasing sentences and keeping people in jail for extended periods of time didn't really solve the problem either.

Remember Jackie Tran? What about Vuthy Kong? the guy who put a steak knife deep into someones back and killed him and got away with 7 years for MANSLAUGHTER. Got out and was re-arrested for drugs and only got 90 days.

If that's not a joke I don't know what is. No matter what other country you look at.

Sure, those cases are a joke. Like pretty much everyone else in the world I am against people being murdered. I don't think murderers should go free but I also think if everyone who commits a violent offense was locked up for the rest of their lives, we would need way more jails and our tax bill would more than double to pay for it. Given the studies that have shown that it really isn't needed and that you cannot 100% predict who exactly will re-offend, it really doesn't make a lot of sense to go through that expense.

There are obviously many examples of people re-offending after they were released. One side of the coin says there is certainly a strong case for more making it easier to designate someone a dangerous offender so they don't get out early. I think this idea certainly has merit, however giving someone this label pretty much destroys the rest of their life so it needs to be a measured response, and not just something thrown out at random when a crime if committed.

The other side of the coin says that increased risk of re-offending after being released from prison is a result of our prison system, since as I pointed out earlier, people who go to prison tend to commit more crimes after being released (or while still incarcerated) due to the environment they are in. I know it is just a movie, but it is based on a true story, Murder in the First as it is a perfect example of this kind of thing. Guy goes to jail for stealing 5 bucks, ends up going crazy and killing a guy because of the jail conditions he was kept in. It is a very extreme example to be sure, but it is one of the reasons that Alcatraz was shut down.