[Dagger]

Originally Posted by moon

Those teams were built a lot differently than the approach that they have taken recently.

That's not my advice at all. My advice is that when you can afford to get the better player go out and get him and don't worry about nickels and dimes.

Its fine that they have a new way of thinking but it doesn't help if that "new" way of thinking leaves you behind that other teams in the league.

No. NESV purely built those teams on sabremetrics. The first thing they did was offer Billy Beane big money, he's the man that had great success with sabremetrics on a cash strapped A's team. He said no so they turned to Theo Epstein who was one of the men in baseball management using that, the Sox hired him as GM. The next thing they did was hire Bill James, the man behind sabremetrics to work exclusively for them.

The result was a title the next year. And then one again 2 years later.

No, you're advice was to throw money at a man like Teixeira who sabremetrics show is an inferior player to Youkillis, and you claim this to be nickle and diming. It's not, it's actually incredibly smart. How can you keep saying he's the better player when he isn't?

Sure, Sabathia is a top notch pitcher and they could have possibly used him, but it's just flat out stupid to give a pitcher at his age and size 7 years and over 160m. Now you again call this nickel and diming, but when you look at pitchers like Barry Zito, Kevin Brown, Mike Hampton, and Johan Santana how many would you say truly justify being valued at over 100m? Santana has been good for the Mets, but he hasn't been the Santana the Mets thought they were getting from the Twins, he's been a notch below that. Mike Hampton and Zito just blow, and Kevin Brown was not worth his price tag anyway you slice it.

Now, you claim that this "new way of thinking leaves them behind." How does it leave them behind if the Red Sox have been the most successful team this decade? Tell that to a man like Billy Beane who has won 4 pennants along with a wildcard birth with a payroll in the bottom 7 consistently(with teams like the Mariners spending 100m every year, and Tom Hicks giving Arod a 250m contract) this decade. Tell that to Andre Friedman who has brought the Rays back from obscurity with sabremetrics. Ask Jon Daniels about it, that is if he finds the time while he's in the WS. If anything it brings them to the forefront, and you're behind.

I have news for you there is more than one team ahead of them both in terms of current quality and in future potential.

Those two World Series wins will make them feel awesome as they watch team after team pass them by in the American League. But hey at least they can talk about those two rings they won and count their money that they save by not paying players talented enough to get them into the play-offs, let alone a World Series.

i'm sure that WS in 2004 really makes up for the fact the Yankees have kicked the crap put them the past couple of seasons.

I'm not a Red Sox fan. I'm a Mariner fan. My team is switching over to valuing sabermetrics with Jack Z, and we have a much better prospect cupboard and team than we had with Bill Bavasi, who followed your method by not nickeling and diming players like Richie Sexton, Adrian Beltre, Jarrod Washburn, Jose Vidro, Miguel Batista, Carlos Silva and Kenji Johjima.

The Red Sox right now are in a good position. Epstein has money to spend if he needs it, they're team is full of young players that will be there for years, their pitching staff has 2 top end guys already in the majors, and there prospect cupboard is good.

Now you're just saying dumb things. Those two WS rings make them feel good, while they watch teams pass them? What the hell do you play for every year? Every ing team in the league would love to be as successful as the Red Sox this decade, you're just spewing e.

And yeah, ask any Yankees fan they'll gladly take beating the Red Sox in the season series over being defeated in a 7 game series in the playoffs and they'll also freely be proud to admit their team hasn't been won as many titles as the Red Sox this decade despite spending a colossal amount more. I strongly encourage you to think before you post. It helps.

Spending money stupidly doesn't work for anyone. The Red Sox have found that out lately by refusing to go after the top players that they can afford and instead going with cheaper, less talented options.

Spending money on top guys like Sabathia and Texiera while augmenting those players with homegrown talent has kept the Yankees competitve for the past 20 years.

Refusing to go for top notch players? They've made offers for players like Alex Rodriguez, Mark Teixeira, and Johan Santana.

You're absolutely talking drivel. They've found out lately? Yeah, because the Yankees won one WS title doing what they do best, while teams like the Rangers and Rays have made the WS spending not nearly as much.

You keep saying less talented. These stats show that most of the time, they are producing better than your big name players, yet you keep repeating yourself like a broken record. Are you honestly comprehending what sabermetrics is, or are you just being ignorant to the way forward and the trend that will be around for the next century.

Spending money will always keep you in the game, no question. But if you can avoid doing this, or not having the luxury to there is a proven, and more successful way around this but you seem to think the way that worked 20 years ago and stopped working early on in this millenium is better, are you going to tell me that a model T is nicer than a 2010 Enzo next?

How'd the spending work out for the Yankees against the Marlins in 2003? Or the Indians in 07? Or the Rangers one week ago?

You keep talking about top class players and young talent around them. Please tell me who on the Yankees right now besides Cano could step on to a playoff team? You've got Montero coming up, but other than that the assets there aren't to good. The Sox have far more young talent, while having a good core. They've had a bad year, big deal they'll bounce back most likely, at least if you build according to sabermetrics which seems to be the winning philosophy, unless it's a fan like you who would prefer winning games in the regular season than having another title.