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Originally Posted by peter12

The Pope is a very smart man and his comments are taking people aback because frankly, most people don't want to or can't seriously consider what the Pope is actually saying.

He's saying he's shocked, people are considering it and finding that hard to believe given his history in the church and his prior involvement in the issues.

An ad hominem is not always fallacious, the actions of the pope are relevant moral authority of the office. But using sex abuse scandals to attack the Christian faith, yes I agree.

Originally Posted by peter12

The BHA is totally out to lunch on this one. The Pope is saying that today's atheists are too wishy-washy and frankly, too stupid to have any sort of real contribution to moral debates.

This sounds a lot like other cases where you make claims about what people say but don't substantiate it. So let's look at what was actually said:

Even in our own lifetime, we can recall how Britain and her leaders stood against a Nazi tyranny that wished to eradicate God from society and denied our common humanity to many, especially the Jews, who were thought unfit to live. I also recall the regime’s attitude to Christian pastors and religious who spoke the truth in love, opposed the Nazis and paid for that opposition with their lives. As we reflect on the sobering lessons of the atheist extremism of the twentieth century, let us never forget how the exclusion of God, religion and virtue from public life leads ultimately to a truncated vision of man and of society and thus to a “reductive vision of the person and his destiny” (Caritas in Veritate, 29).

Today, the United Kingdom strives to be a modern and multicultural society. In this challenging enterprise, may it always maintain its respect for those traditional values and cultural expressions that more aggressive forms of secularism no longer value or even tolerate.

Nothing in there about atheists being wishy washy or too stupid to enter into moral debates. Too bad though, that was kind of catchy.