[HPLovecraft]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

I've read Aquinas and he's not so great IMO compared to many other philosophers I've read. In fact the Christian philosophers outside of Kierkegaard that I've read paled in comparison to the rest.

The way you present the Copernicus, Church, heliocentric controversy is certainly a flattering one to the Church. The Church most definitely persecuted the idea harshly, perhaps you should read up on Galileo more closely who came after Copernicus and the Galileo affair. That you have the audacity to praise Christianity for the work of scientists who presented ideas that the Church harshly persecuted is bewildering. Where did you learn that history?

Are you really calling on Bacon, Kepler and Newton to support your argument? Many of these examples of yours did not thrive because of the Church or the Bible but because of their intellect and that application of it. That some of them professed to be Christian is not that surprising, you can't expect all scientists and philosophers to have been atheists through the entirety of history would you?

Really bewildering response.

Sigh. Let me explain this for you again.

You state that religion breeds and encourages mediocrity and limits ambition.

I list a number of people who are Christian throughout history that have created and discovered either because they were inspired by their religion, or did it in the name of their religion in some capacity. I use Christian examples because, while you say you give examples of why religion is a destructive influence on life, you do nothing but give Christian examples in turn.

I really don't care if Aquinas is any better than another religious philosopher. He contributed a great deal to our culture and society while being a deeply religious man, the same as many others. He was one example of a religious man that was not mediocre nor limited in ambition.

There is no debating that the Christian Church did a lot of terrible things. But I am speaking of religion, in its entirety, and what it has inspired people all over the world, throughout history, to do. It doesn't matter in the context of this debate whether the Church didn't approve of what Galileo said -- what is important is that a deeply religious man like Galileo was inspired to discover great things IN THE NAME OF GOD.

You said religion encouraged mediocrity and limited a person's ambition, remember? Bacon, Kepler, Newton, Einstein -- these men were religious men, yet were not mediocre nor limited in ambition, which is what you said religion did. I presented the wide-range of human history that shows that it doesn't and that it didn't.