They've both been making the last 16 teams in the world cup over and over again for almost 20 years. To me, those are games that matter. Are they as good as Brazil or Spain? No, but they have demonstrated consistently for a long time that they are in the top 20 in the world.
I think that how successful players are in England has pretty much been debunked as an international measuring stick after the last world cup. Great leagues, but a totally unique style of play that most other competitions in the world are completely different from.
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