Awesome discussion for the most part. I am proud to be included in it, even if in a very small way.
First off, and i want this clear, I am not a religious guy. Period. In any way, shape, or form of what is being said here do I "believe" in anything I am told to "beleive" in.
Yet, I "believe".
In what then?
Simply, in something larger than myself. What that is I have an idea but never once have i seen it articulated the way I would agree with, whether by any defined religion or any group of people that name themselves something else.
That doesnt matter to me as I have no desire to "belong" to anyone that wants to share my views. I cannot say the same for "Christians", "Muslims", or any other established religion that screams from the rooftops or from the streets that they are "right".
That is a defined difference between faith and "fairy tales" IMO.
I go back to what I said in this
string (thats for bingo, never said i didnt kiss ass sometimes) originally......... that being....
Quote:
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Whether one is fanatical about there being no god, or one is fanatical about there being a god...both are still fanatics.
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Take that at face value and it cannot be denied. Yet, I have responces that say it is or is not true....depending on "beliefs". This is where the entire discussion becomes not just unravelled, but also no longer up for a "debate". It now becomes preaching, no matter what side of the spectrum you fall on.
My long time adversary on CP (and a guy who will be a good drinking buddy when i get back to Calgary whether he likes it or not damnit) Rouge Underoos said this in response to my above statement...
Quote:
You can say the same thing about people who are fanatical about the color blue or fanatical about scrambled eggs. Fanatics are fanatics.
I've personally never met a fanatical atheist. Never had one on my doorstep, never seen one excommunicated for having radical beliefs, never seen them chanting in the streets for the death of people who believe something else, never seen a news story that involved an atheist blowing up a cafe full of other atheists with vaguely different beliefs.
Can you give me an example of a fanatical atheist
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I love the first part, cause it proves my point in a warped way....and it's true. And i agree.
The rest of it becomes nothing more than the "core" of the entire debate. Whether one shows up on a doorstep screaming from the top of their lungs about how their god is best, or how there is no god, means little.
Even if ANY religions are more organized, well funded, crazy, or driven to do well (or do harm) to/for others...it changes not one single "belief"...for anyone. People are what they are for the most part. That now becomes applicable to those that dont believe in any greater existance. Yes or no?
I guess it all boils down to a very simplistic yet contensious issue... live and let live even if living means you have to try and persuade others to live as you do.
/end semi-coherent rant